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  #1  
Old 11-08-2006, 12:07 AM
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help with efi and carburetor

Today my english professor told us that we had to write a 8 page paper and try to persuade his views. I have decided to do it on efi and carburetors and I was wondering if you guys could help me find some information.

1. All types of efi (also point out which one is the best if any)
2. any modern cars that still use carb. today (if any, but doubt it)
3. drawbacks on using efi over carb.

I'll think up some more later
Thanks for those that help
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  #2  
Old 11-08-2006, 01:01 AM
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EFI there is single point, and multi point efi generally, direct injection is starting to appear on modern motors. EFI is superior to carburation due to the more precise metering of fuel compared to carburetors.

Cant think of any non efi engines in new cars, they are still used in various marine applications but mainly the base models.

Drawbacks of EFI, not really serviceable on the side of the road, compared to a carby. You can strip and clean a carby on the side of the road in a emergency, something which can be done on modern efi's without various test equipment.
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Old 11-08-2006, 03:51 AM
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Motorcycles still use carburators. I'm not sure why. But they sure dont lack in performance. Guess it cuts cost or something and fuelconsumption and emmission isn't that strict on bikes??
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Old 11-08-2006, 04:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuto
Motorcycles still use carburators. I'm not sure why. But they sure dont lack in performance. Guess it cuts cost or something and fuelconsumption and emmission isn't that strict on bikes??
Not all do. EFI has been introduced on a lot of bikes over the last few years.
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Old 11-08-2006, 05:22 AM
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Google for the following systems:
Motronic
K-Jetronic
L-Jetronic
Common rail

Those are commonly used systems for fuel injection. Motronic is currently the most used one. It comprises of many parts + an ECU. Especially Motronic i have knowledge about and a book by Bosch. Contact me on MSN if you require any more assistance (click the msn thingy near my username)
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Old 11-08-2006, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charged
Cant think of any non efi engines in new cars
I think you should think twice A good example are the Daewoo's. Not all of these cheap bastards have EFI. Believe me i was amazed to hear that too
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Old 11-08-2006, 08:53 AM
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Drawbacks to EFI - throttle response seems to lag behind throttle input, in other words, if I blip the throttle I notice more of a lag time until the revs pick up vs. a carburetor. Computer and sensors can be costly and complicated to maintain/replace. Always seems like some sensor or another needs to be cleaned, tested, or replaced. Additional number of electrical circuits are a pain to those of us who dread doing electrical work. Especially on newer EFI systems, you need a code reader to pull diagnostic codes. EFI engines tend to lack any personality due to their smoother-running characteristics. Some EFI systems are not modification-receptive and must be "re-programmed" to run correctly after a modification.

Advantages to EFI - does the air/fuel tuning work for you. Better off-road since you don't have the fuel starvation issues you get on a carb when at odd attitudes.

A carb CAN be tuned to give as good fuel economy as EFI, it's just that most people won't bother (I think it's fun). Carbs are relatively cheap and easy to obtain, and really help simplify things under the hood.

As you can probably tell, I'm a huge fan of carb'd vehicles
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Old 11-08-2006, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcp123
Additional number of electrical circuits are a pain to those of us who dread doing electrical work. Especially on newer EFI systems, you need a code reader to pull diagnostic codes. EFI engines tend to lack any personality due to their smoother-running characteristics. Some EFI systems are not modification-receptive and must be "re-programmed" to run correctly after a modification.
I assume yo are talking about Motronic(like) ECU/EFI systems ??? You dont need to use the diagnostics function on those. they just give a very quick indication of what may be wrong. The ECU (on the latest versions IIRC ME7 and higher) can even predict when a certain part need to be replaced !!! This saves costly repairs and for a trained person is much much easier. You DO need some education and equipment,the time when some bodging in your garage was sufficient is over the code-readers come not too expensive though... About a 1000 euros should get you a pretty decent one To you it may sound much,but for a efficient garage its nothing.
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Old 11-08-2006, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drakkie
I assume yo are talking about Motronic(like) ECU/EFI systems ???
No idea. Aside from speed-density vs. mass air systems, throttle-body injection vs. port and sequential port injection, EFI is EFI is EFI to me. I wouldn't know how a Motronic system works differently from other EFI systems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drakkie
You dont need to use the diagnostics function on those. they just give a very quick indication of what may be wrong. The ECU (on the latest versions IIRC ME7 and higher) can even predict when a certain part need to be replaced !!! This saves costly repairs and for a trained person is much much easier. You DO need some education and equipment,the time when some bodging in your garage was sufficient is over the code-readers come not too expensive though... About a 1000 euros should get you a pretty decent one To you it may sound much,but for a efficient garage its nothing.
Older OBD-I equipped cars here in the US allowed you to check codes by counting the number of times the Check Engine Light flashed, or in some cases the trouble code would appear on the digital odometer, no code reader needed (though you had to be able to concentrate...). Those days, however, are gone. OBDII code readers for '96-and-up can be had here for well under $100, yes, $100 (about 80 Euros), or if you buy a piggyback cumputer programmer like the Hypertech Power Programmers, they typically come with a code reading function built in alongside the programming function, all for about $300. Not that expensive, but a lot when you figure you can just use your noodle to figure things out too. It's worked very well for me, although I suppose I can see how folks might prefer the ease of getting part of the story by pulling codes.

As to predicting the parts that need replacement...don't they program those to be way conservative so they can sell more OEM parts to unsuspecting customers who wouldn't know any better? I'd have no way of knowing if that's true, but that was my very first thought. As far as replacing the sensors, the carb'd engines don't have those in the first place, thereby removing that whole kit'n'kaboodle of trouble.
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Old 11-08-2006, 11:51 AM
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EFI > carbs in every way possible.

</thread>
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Old 11-08-2006, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiggs
EFI > carbs in every way possible.

</thread>
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Old 11-08-2006, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnynumfiv
SU's>you
Don't forget Webers and Stromberg 97's.
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Old 11-08-2006, 12:26 PM
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Mmmmmmm..... webers
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  #14  
Old 11-14-2006, 10:59 AM
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Oh, and Holley 94's, too...
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