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  #151  
Old 04-09-2006, 03:50 AM
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Matra et Alpine Matra et Alpine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john14
Matra, I must agree, Honda are a great car manufacturer but... Overall, Honda cars are a bit boring. However, Honda has manufactured many interesting and beautiful cars, such as the Honda NSX and the Honda S2000. Also, some Honda's have great character and charm.
Grab a Typre-R variant

We had a Civic Type-R on track last year.
He embarrassed SPORTS CARS costing 5 times more than him
THe suspension is well sorted out and the engine could really pull.
Yes, teh driver was good and the track's a twisty -- but the hairpin is one that often FWD's lose out on but it was so well blanced he could go into the apex on 3 wheels braking VERY late anda scrubbing speed.

The MAINSTREAM Honda is aimed at a person who WANTS reliability and sadly that generally means a person NOT Lookign for excitement and so the match of "borign" I'd asgree with.
Seen the new Civic in real life ? Saw my first today adn it IS a stunner adn looks just right !!! If they had the Typre-R now instead of the "sport" I'd likely go one as we're needing new "family car"
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  #152  
Old 04-09-2006, 03:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henk4
of course but one of the charming aspects of a sportscar is that it has a very nice gearbox, which can turn the "just rolling along" into something more exciting.

(NB: I hardly rev over 2000 when accelarating, with max torque setting in at 1700 there is no need to. and 3000 rpm corresponds to 145 kph in top gear )
Yeah when I drive diesels I am teh opposite of Slicks.
I always find I'm tryign to get it to rev and end up SLOWER.
It takes me a bit of self-dscispline for the first few miles to swithc modes and then get their quicker


Nobody going to comment on the Honda diesel ---- "hate something, love something" ?
Seeing the new Civic specs it only gets 5mpg better than the VTEC .... is it worth it ?
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  #153  
Old 04-09-2006, 03:56 AM
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51dg 45' 08.16" N : 0dg 20' 19.33" W
Are you talking about the new shape Camaro Z28?

I, unfortunately, have had the dubious pleasure of driving one of those things around Donington. I had a rather frightening moment in the braking/turn in area for Coppice - for those who don't know Donington Coppice Corner has a steep up hill braking area and the turn in is more or less on the brow of the slope. As I turned in, nothing happened but as as the end of the slope kicked the rear suspension the front tyres gripped, the rear end tried to overtake me and nearly plowed into the outside barrier. Scary stuff. I took that corner in a Westfield XTR4 in the wet on semis and came in with cleaner underwear.
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  #154  
Old 04-09-2006, 03:58 AM
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51dg 45' 08.16" N : 0dg 20' 19.33" W
I havent driven a Honda diesel yet - are they any good?
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  #155  
Old 04-09-2006, 04:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine
Nobody going to comment on the Honda diesel ---- "hate something, love something" ?
Seeing the new Civic specs it only gets 5mpg better than the VTEC .... is it worth it ?
I mentioned it in post 59 .

Never driven one, good reputation though...
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  #156  
Old 04-09-2006, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine
We've been around it 10 times ONLY because this is the first time you've actually described what you think it is.
PEAKY is NOT power until high revs.
WRONG.
Peaky is exactly what it describes where the power curve a very strong peak ( or even more peaks in a VERY highly tuned engine )
It all comes back from OLD DAYS when fueling , valve lift valve bounce and manifold pressures were not as well understood and the engines didnt' have ECUs. So you would find points when the engine was "off cam" ( ie the low end timing was off - the most usual ) or the fuel/air mixture was not right, or flow had a stall point.
So I could have a "peaky" engine that only revved to 5000 or an engine that had good power until harmonic on valve springing caused bounce, but get past it and you had another 1000 revs. These are all things we've dialled out in the main through better component materials, multi-valve, fuel injection and engine management units.
The main one was always being "off cam" when the timing meant it didn't sing until higher revs - a very common problem when tuning pushrods. So natural you'd ONLY see that, but that's not all that "peaky" means.
By "high revs" Im talking about higher revs, like closer to redline opposed to closer to idle.
Quote:
Well it actually sounded like an underpowered engine frankly.
A common problem with cars designed for elsewhere and then made "emission friendly" for the US. Shame you use that problem as a reason for bad engine
Doesnt seem like a problem for most other manufacturers.
Quote:
That's exoected
It was nothing special.
IT didn't thave the pull of a Jaguar straight six and the handling was frightening.
Once it was up to 60mph it started to go light and the steering wander was terrifiying by the time it got out to 80. So much so you HAD to back off.
Looked good ( for it's day )
What year was this thing? What kind of condition was it in? Sounds like you were driving a 70s or a dud...
Even the 94 LT1 Z28 I drove felt planted to the ground at 80. At 120 my WS6 still feels glued to the road. No steering wander in either car. Sounds like yours needed an alignment fix bigtime.
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  #157  
Old 04-09-2006, 02:44 PM
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Matra et Alpine Matra et Alpine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slicks
Doesnt seem like a problem for most other manufacturers.
But it was
See everybody else go to expericen the real capability of the car.
Driving the equivalent model in the us were aenemic - personally driven Japanese and European equivalents that were terrible in the US but good elsewhere !!!
British sports cars were destroyed by the required additions of poinltess bumpers and emissions restrictions
Quote:
What year was this thing? What kind of condition was it in? Sounds like you were driving a 70s or a dud...
Early 80s, can't remember the precise model Senility settign in
It was a rental. We took it back and the guy said that's the way they are and he didnt' see anything wrong adn pointed out we are nto supposed to break the speed limits Guys at the office "in the know" said that it was fine.
We clocked up about 6000 miles on it while we were there.
Thankfully I did less than 1000 of that !!
Quote:
Even the 94 LT1 Z28 I drove felt planted to the ground at 80. At 120 my WS6 still feels glued to the road. No steering wander in either car. Sounds like yours needed an alignment fix bigtime.
In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king.
It's what you're used to, American cars ALL used to wander badly compared to the inputs we required for day to day driving. It's all the compliant suspension and the inevitable steering input that the suspension movement induces.
BUT I only introduced it to show the pointlessness of picking ONE EXAMPLE adn makgin inferences abotu the average
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  #158  
Old 04-09-2006, 02:50 PM
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In this respect the differences I found between the two Mercedes diesel engines for the European and the US market show that these practices are still ongoing....
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  #159  
Old 04-09-2006, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine
Early 80s, can't remember the precise model Senility settign in
It was a rental. We took it back and the guy said that's the way they are and he didnt' see anything wrong adn pointed out we are nto supposed to break the speed limits Guys at the office "in the know" said that it was fine.
We clocked up about 6000 miles on it while we were there.
Thankfully I did less than 1000 of that !!
Ahhh I see, thats the problem, an 80s rental Camaro, makes sense now. I drove an IROC Camaro once, that thing is pretty crappy, nothing like the 4th gen F-bodies.
Was it even a 305?

Quote:
In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king.
It's what you're used to, American cars ALL used to wander badly compared to the inputs we required for day to day driving. It's all the compliant suspension and the inevitable steering input that the suspension movement induces.
BUT I only introduced it to show the pointlessness of picking ONE EXAMPLE adn makgin inferences abotu the average
Your too predictable

Did you forget, Ive driven more than just American cars.
BMWs, VW, and atleast one car from every Japanese company.
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  #160  
Old 04-09-2006, 05:01 PM
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Matra et Alpine Matra et Alpine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slicks
Did you forget, Ive driven more than just American cars.
BMWs, VW, and atleast one car from every Japanese company.
ah but did you READ what I pointed out ( and henk reminded too ) ???

You are comparing damaged-goods

OLD OLD line on UCP where we've seen time and again that the product YOU GUYS GET is worse suspension settings, worse gearing and worse performance because it's modified to meet the US "market needs"

THAT is why what I wrote was predictable !!!!!!

But you still seem to insist on decrying others who have experienced the REAL cars using your (bad) experience as the benchmark
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  #161  
Old 04-09-2006, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine
ah but did you READ what I pointed out ( and henk reminded too ) ???

You are comparing damaged-goods

OLD OLD line on UCP where we've seen time and again that the product YOU GUYS GET is worse suspension settings, worse gearing and worse performance because it's modified to meet the US "market needs"

THAT is why what I wrote was predictable !!!!!!

But you still seem to insist on decrying others who have experienced the REAL cars using your (bad) experience as the benchmark
Also waiting for you to bring that up. So all the cars we get have "American" steering and performance, even the performance versions right?
Its like talking to a brick wall that thinks its a comedian.
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  #162  
Old 04-09-2006, 05:41 PM
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Matra et Alpine Matra et Alpine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slicks
Also waiting for you to bring that up. So all the cars we get have "American" steering and performance, even the performance versions right?
Its like talking to a brick wall that thinks its a comedian.
GO AND CHECK YOUR FACTS

Yes, "most" of the cars you get have setups different for yoru market

Of course real "performance" cars come adjsutable anyway, but I wasnt' includign those.

So you REALLY think that the Merc you get is exactly the same as ours ? or the Beemer ? or Jag ? Go read the manufacturers own press releases and you will READ them talking about "optimising" the car for the US market
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  #163  
Old 04-09-2006, 08:53 PM
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KnifeEdge_2K1 KnifeEdge_2K1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunk
Look, most of us are going to drive at 3000rpm-4000rpm on public roads. Whats the point of having a sports car that behaves like a normal econobox at that limit?
Woudn't you like to have some more 'juice' at that range?
at the expense of top end power ??

what u want sir is a truck, not a sports car
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  #164  
Old 04-09-2006, 11:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KnifeEdge_2K1
at the expense of top end power ??

what u want sir is a truck, not a sports car
tell that to the Audi people, who are now racing the R10
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  #165  
Old 04-11-2006, 07:36 AM
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slicks, just for the record, from the press release on the new E-Class

"
In the USA the E-Class in the guise of the E 320 CDI since 2004 is the first diesel model in the premium-class segment in the USA. From model year 2007 Mercedes-Benz intends to launch the first diesel production vehicle in the USA with the trailblazing BLUETEC technology, which will provide further remarkable reductions in nitrogen oxide emissions. The future E 320 BLUETEC will be the world’s cleanest diesel, using 20 to 40 percent less fuel than comparable petrol-engined vehicles. In Europe Mercedes-Benz plans to launch BLUETEC in a passenger car model by 2008."
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