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  #31  
Old 06-23-2006, 04:50 PM
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The MRFQ400 is a track orientated car and they generally have large turning circles.
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  #32  
Old 06-25-2006, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h00t_h00t
The same applys to large V8s in American cars, does that mean they are just as good?
Those V8s rev low because the people who made them stupid. Give those engines to Europeans and they put them in supercars and make them rev to 8k rpm and produce at least 90bhp/liter na.
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  #33  
Old 06-25-2006, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QBridge
Those V8s rev low because the people who made them stupid. Give those engines to Europeans and they put them in supercars and make them rev to 8k rpm and produce at least 90bhp/liter na.
A 540ci goin 8k rpm, hahahha.
But those europeans do that to the engines so they get "mad money" for racing right?
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  #34  
Old 06-25-2006, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QBridge
Those V8s rev low because the people who made them stupid. Give those engines to Europeans and they put them in supercars and make them rev to 8k rpm and produce at least 90bhp/liter na.
Nice collcetion of stereotypes there...
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  #35  
Old 06-25-2006, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spi-ti-tout
The question came to me because of how Clarkson was moaning about the turning circle of the MRFQ400. IIRC NOBODY have ever mentioned a horrible turning radius of any EVO, atleast none that I have spoken to or read from, but that turning circle was really horrible and it was based on the stock MR, which is also AWD and shares all the same technology. I was just thinking "why?", if this has been so bad why hasn't anybody ever mentioned it ebfore.
the turning radius is a function of wheelbase, and steering rack geometry, the evo's steering ratio is 13.0:1 with 2.1 turns lock to lock, this translates to 30 degrees of steering in either direction, not much when compared to other cars, this just makes it worse when factoring in it's above average wheelbase

the designers of the evo had steering response and speed in mind, not turning radius, i dont even considerer the large turning radius a tradeoff in my mind, parking has never been a problem for me
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  #36  
Old 06-25-2006, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QBridge
Those V8s rev low because the people who made them stupid. Give those engines to Europeans and they put them in supercars and make them rev to 8k rpm and produce at least 90bhp/liter na.
But they are fitted in rear wheel drive cars which lets them 'keep it real' unlike the europeans who make more fwd fake cars.
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  #37  
Old 06-25-2006, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnynumfiv
A 540ci goin 8k rpm, hahahha.
But those europeans do that to the engines so they get "mad money" for racing right?
I never said anything about no 540ci.
The Europeans do that because rich people buy them. There is quite a few European supercars with Chevy V8s that make good power.
Quote:
Originally Posted by h00t_h00t
But they are fitted in rear wheel drive cars which lets them 'keep it real' unlike the europeans who make more fwd fake cars.
American car makers don't keep it real because they fit those V8s in big ugly heavy cars with automatic trannys making 50bhp/liter. Europeans keep it real because they can take a small block Chevy V8 and put it in a supercar and make twice the power out of that engine.
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  #38  
Old 06-25-2006, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QBridge
Europeans keep it real because they can take a small block Chevy V8 and put it in a supercar and make twice the power out of that engine.
So a European version makes twice the power at ten times the cost, I fail to see the "wow" factor.
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  #39  
Old 06-25-2006, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastor
So a European version makes twice the power at ten times the cost, I fail to see the "wow" factor.
the car is ten times the cost but the engine isnt, it is amazingly simple to gain power from american engines which have huge displacement but the efficiency of a coal/steam powered train
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  #40  
Old 06-26-2006, 02:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QBridge
I never said anything about no 540ci.
You generically said american v8's. A 540ci bb is an american v8, so yes, you did say something like that. Friggin stereotypes.
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  #41  
Old 06-26-2006, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KnifeEdge_2K1
the car is ten times the cost but the engine isnt, it is amazingly simple to gain power from american engines which have huge displacement but the efficiency of a coal/steam powered train
I don’t hear about too many people buying supercar engines without the supercar, but may be that is a moot point.

I am not arguing that there is not more power to be made, this is true for any engine. So we are clear I am talking about power output alone, I do not see what that has to do with efficiency.

What I cannot understand is why the engine is automatically better when it is European tuned and the design constraints are no longer the same.
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  #42  
Old 06-26-2006, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastor
I don’t hear about too many people buying supercar engines without the supercar, but may be that is a moot point.

I am not arguing that there is not more power to be made, this is true for any engine. So we are clear I am talking about power output alone, I do not see what that has to do with efficiency.

What I cannot understand is why the engine is automatically better when it is European tuned and the design constraints are no longer the same.
bhp per litre is a measure of efficiency, and on average american engines get only a fraction of equivilantly sized jap or euro engines

it isnt automatically better, it's just life experience has taught us that in almost all cases this is the truth

and regarding the previous post about being 10 times more expensive a less significant increase in power, 1 more point i wanna bring up, price is only marginally related to cost, just cuz it's price is 10 times higher doesnt mean it took 10x the money to tune it
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  #43  
Old 06-26-2006, 08:33 PM
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another point i wanna bring up about american engines, not only are they as efficient as doing calculas with your fingers, they're slower then similarly speced imports

for example, my dad's mercury mystique which has a 2.5 or 3.0 (cant remember) V6 which supposedly outputs 160-170hp feels slower then my sister's corolla which has a 1.8 125hp engine, when i step on the throttle on my friend's 1.8T A4 the thing takes off, when i step on the gas on the mystique, the engine just gets louder, without a noticible increase in acceleration

this is not an isolated incident, my family's previous chrysler intrepid was the same, my friend's mustang feels as slow as a base civic, and the list continues
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  #44  
Old 06-26-2006, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KnifeEdge_2K1
bhp per litre is a measure of efficiency
I wouldn’t call it efficiency, but a perfomance metric yes. It is even a useful one, but hardly definitive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KnifeEdge_2K1
and regarding the previous post about being 10 times more expensive a less significant increase in power, 1 more point i wanna bring up, price is only marginally related to cost, just cuz it's price is 10 times higher doesnt mean it took 10x the money to tune it
Exactly, as a consumer why would I be impressed by this?
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  #45  
Old 06-26-2006, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastor
I wouldn’t call it efficiency, but a perfomance metric yes. It is even a useful one, but hardly definitive.



Exactly, as a consumer why would I be impressed by this?
bhp/l is one of the best measures of efficiency

gasoline has a set amount of energy per litre, the engine is designed to harness this, if it cant harness as much energy per litre of engine displacement it means one of or both these things, 1 it is loosing more energy (comparitavely speaking) during combustion, or it isnt getting as high volumetric efficiency

however you look at it, the lower bhp/liter the less efficient the engine

you're just trying to find random arguments now, so off topic you it's not funny. the whole point was american engines are inefficient, and that given the same engine a european company would easily be able to tune it to give more performance. you then brought up the fact the cars those engines are placed in cost 10x as much as the base cars, i merely stated that the price difference is not attributed to the extra tuning of the engine, but rather set by demand and supply forces.

next time you decide to voice your opinion, straiten out your facts and argument
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