Why do you like Honda?

[nota]

. And they haven't figured out putting 4 valves on the OHV set up yet.

Haven't you figured out that they have figured it out? A 4-valve OHV has been in mass-production since 1998, the Cummins ISB (Ward's 10 Best 2004) and Ford Powerstroke 32-valve V8 is OHV

Some versions of Chevrolet's new Gen IV will feature 3-valve per cylinder

[Matra et Alpine]

to point out to some person who can get almost violently angry when somebody else makes a reading mistake, that it "can happen"....

hey ..... "no fair"

I get "angry" when there is deliberate avoidance, mis-quoting, distortion and bare faced lying.

Mis-reading can't be an excuse when it's pointed out half a dozen times.

If you want to label me get the label right

[Matra et Alpine]

That analogy was terrible.

Was it ?
have you used a number of top quality pens ?
I can hold a pen in my hand and feel the blance and knwo if it will be comfortable and look at the nib shape and approximate the writingl

Same with cars

Get anotehr thread and say how it failed as an aanalogy --- let's keep this one for WHAT YOU LIKE ABOUT HONDA !!!

So under normal daily driving, and cruising around you normally keep the RPMs above 6000RPMs?

No, under accelerateion when I NEED the power I do

Heh, can I ask what kind of gas milage you were getting? During daily driving normally you would want to keep the RPMs low as possible to save gas (and keep noise down).

erm, THAT all depends on where your engine is most "efficient".
Fast acceleration at full throttle is shown to be optimal for fule efficiency durign acceleration.
Crusing is then just about gearing and for doing 70 you're sitting just under 5000 revs ( remember the top speed )

REVS ARE FINE, as long as you can make power at ALL of them.

erm you are forgetting GEARING -- you always do
The gear overlap and width are important to use the engine power range.
If you dont' rev to use it you'll always find them slow.

Read my last reply to you.

yeah but you slot in more off-topci BS to Ke.
We dont' jsut read posts addresed to ourselves ... this is a public forum

[PerfAdv]

I think the motor operates in 12V mode (rather than 16V) on light throttle apllications, but most (all?) sixteen valve cars do this.

These images show the internal differences pretty well (taken from asia.vtec.net), note the much closer spacing of the valve rockers to facilitate the cam switch.

The 12V mode on light throttle you describe is found in the VTEC-E. At sub-2500 RPM the cam profile opens only one of the intake valves. This engine was used in the Civic HX, a high efficiency Civic model.

more detailed explanation here:
http://www.leecao.com/honda/vtec/sohcvtece.html

[PerfAdv]

As for the V8 vs I4 comparisons and how the Honda inline 4 lacks torque; how does that not make any sense? So, if Honda through some magical engineering produced a 2 litre four that produces 240 HP and very respectable performance numbers to match, the complaint is that you don't like the way it sounds?

You don't have to like the sound or nature of Honda's high revving engines to realize what masterpieces they are. Ask yourself if your a SBC fan, can GM ever hope of producing an F1 engine or a 600 cc 4-banger that produces 120+ HP in stock trim?

Personally, for normal everyday driving, I'd take a V6 that makes 240 HP rather than the smaller engine that can do the same, just because of the more relaxed nature of the power delivery. But that doesn't take away from what Honda achieved with their F20 and much improved F22 engines. Unlike before Honda offers torquer, lower-revving engines in their more pedestrian cars. The S2K is supposed to be driven at the limit, so no problem with it revving high.

[Matra et Alpine]

600 cc 4-banger that produces 120+ HP in stock trim?

Or a 998cc producing 250+HP in race trim AND 100% reliability too

[KnifeEdge_2K1]

Its 240hp. V-tch allows four bangers to have a lot of hp, but not necessarily torque in a lower range (less than 4000 rpm), where most of us will be driving.

why are you knocking v-tec man ??
it offers gains with nearly no costs unlike forced induction
there's nothing about vtec that gives it low torque, it just seems that way cuz there's just so much more power at the upper range, the bottom half of the rev range is just like any other n/a engine of the same size

[h00t_h00t]

Or a 998cc producing 250+HP in race trim AND 100% reliability too

Don't they get completly rebuilt between every race, like F1 cars used to?

[Matra et Alpine]

Don't they get completly rebuilt between every race, like F1 cars used to?

Checked and if necessary rebuilt (not sure how often) ... but they dont' let go like Ducati and Suzuki have this season
Las years Honda engien did a WSB race and THEN a TT IoM weeks worht of events.

[rev440]

I like honda bikes and fourwheelers they build some good stuff. Other then that the NSX is a sweet car and the S2000 is a cool little package for sure.

[Slicks]

So, do you all hate turbos as well then?

I think you're all missing the point somewhat. The WHOLE POINT of VTEC engines is that they have 'two personalities', one for pootling around town and motorway driving (the economy profile) and one for blasting around the place (hi-lift, high consumption).

Also, I'd take an all-aluminium, DOHC lightweight engine in the nose of my car over a two tonne hunk of age old pig iron technology any day! Honda motors are engineering masterpieces, Yank V8s have all the delicacy and precision of a 12lb lump hammer.

Then its obveous youve never driven an American performance car.
Id also take an all aluminum, lightweight engine over a heavy one (i.e. LSx over a Honda engine).

[Slicks]

Was it ?
have you used a number of top quality pens ?
I can hold a pen in my hand and feel the blance and knwo if it will be comfortable and look at the nib shape and approximate the writingl

Same with cars

Except pens dont brake, accelerate, and turn. All of which each car does differently and feels differently. Its hard to assume what a car drive like if youve never driven it. Pens are far too simple to make a comparison.

Get anotehr thread and say how it failed as an aanalogy --- let's keep this one for WHAT YOU LIKE ABOUT HONDA !!!

Were still kinda on topic

No, under accelerateion when I NEED the power I do

Exactly. Now think of it like this, what if it had that kind of power from 1000RPMs to 9000RPMs? Would that not be better?

erm, THAT all depends on where your engine is most "efficient".
Fast acceleration at full throttle is shown to be optimal for fule efficiency durign acceleration.
Crusing is then just about gearing and for doing 70 you're sitting just under 5000 revs ( remember the top speed )

Holy buz batman, 70mph = 5000RPMs! Heh, Im barley over 1500PRMs...

erm you are forgetting GEARING -- you always do
The gear overlap and width are important to use the engine power range.
If you dont' rev to use it you'll always find them slow.

Yeah, yeah I know gearing. But that doesnt always fix a peaky engine (ie most of the Honda's I drove)

[KnifeEdge_2K1]

Then its obveous youve never driven an American performance car.
Id also take an all aluminum, lightweight engine over a heavy one (i.e. LSx over a Honda engine).

wanna give some figures to back that up ??
until then im officially labeling ur posts as B/S

[KnifeEdge_2K1]

[QUOTE=Slicks]
Exactly. Now think of it like this, what if it had that kind of power from 1000RPMs to 9000RPMs? Would that not be better?
[QUOTE]

except you CANT have power from 1000 rpm to 9000rpm
the whole point of vtec is you can have high lift long duration cams at the top end which would give horrible torque at the low end, and low lift no overlap cams for the low end which give regular amount of torque, i dont care what you say about the LS1, it CANT do that

all of what you say is BS cuz as guilty as honda engines cant do what you claim, neither can your beloved LS1, just cuz ur LS1 has torque at low revs doesnt mean its better then the s2000s or wutever, ur forgetting ur nearly tripling the displacement, ofcourse it'd have more torque, now shut up before u hurt urself iwth your stupidity

[Matra et Alpine]

Except pens dont brake, accelerate, and turn. All of which each car does differently and feels differently.

Proof you do NOT understand what am analogy is for
Either you TRY to act that way or you rally are obtuse !!!!
Please let me know, will save hassle in teh future.

So to EXPLAIN it to you.
Once you've drive enough cars to know the difference between torque and power, revs and gears, damping and spring, turn-in, balance, weight, drive out and a million other things that vary with cars and setups you get to know the differences that setups and gross differences make.

Jsut as anyone who's used decent pens can tell abtou pens -- GET the analogy now ?

Its hard to assume what a car drive like if youve never driven it. Pens are far too simple to make a comparison.

You've clearly NOT tried a number of different decent pens
Also, once you drive enough cars then it really CAN get as simple as pens.
Jsut because you dont' think their is a difference with limited experience dont' make the mistake of thinking that thte truth !!!!
With pens and cars

Exactly. Now think of it like this, what if it had that kind of power from 1000RPMs to 9000RPMs? Would that not be better?

For sure, but THAT gets even harder to achieve because of the differing engineering that affects energy extraction in an ICE !!

Holy buz batman, 70mph = 5000RPMs! Heh, Im barley over 1500PRMs...

Do you READ what you write ?
All that says is you have a 6th gear to make YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH THE REVS
( And to "cheat" the freeway cruise mpg measurement for publication )
We know by now that you cannot comprehend anyone driving a car using revs. But realise you are in the minority in the world !!

Yeah, yeah I know gearing. But that doesnt always fix a peaky engine (ie most of the Honda's I drove)

See again I'm not convinced youy arent' mixing peaky and revvy again !!!!!
Gears can NEVER "fix" peaky, but there arent' any "peaky" engines out there any more ( away from teh race track ).
You have NOT driven a "peaky" Honda coz they dont' exists -- unless you've fallen foul of a ricer who's mismatched the filter and exhaust with the fuelling
You HAVE driven a "revvy" Honda and been afraid to use it throught the gears so dont' understand them properly.

Or you can TRY to explain how it was "peaky" when it was driven in a Honda gearbox using the gears if you knwo abtout gearing ?????