Toyota Uses Slaves

[LeonOfTheDead]

I don't like to talk about such facts albeit undeniable, a we are always fighting for the car with one more bhp or which emits one less gram of CO2, and at the same time we don't have even the shadow of a reliable source for the emissions for the production of batteries, how much they pollute and so on. I'm pretty sure they have quite an impact on the environment, and I'm not saying it isn't something to consider, just with the right sources and figures.

It could even come out that batteries are more toxic than nuclear wastes, I don't care about the outcome, what I care is that it's going to be technical and reliable.

[drakkie]

It happens everywhere. A good example is the global maritime industry, it's more common practice then exception. Two images of smuggled letters handed to me.

[ Why can I not link directly to images on my Flickr profile ? Anyway just scroll down a bit!]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sreverda/


I have also experienced this first-hand in my own country. When I was 17 or so, I got a job at a company producing salads. About 75% of their workforce was cheap foreign labour. They earned HALF of what I got paid for the same job. Also they were fired ad sent back after work related accidents (kid my age lost 4 fingers), so they couldn't tell the story to inspectors.
When me and two of these workers went to the unions, we were all fired. These foreigners sent back. I should have taken it further, which I really would do now I gained a bit more experience at life.



A link to the original report; I am reading it right now. Would be interesting to investigate upon for the magazine perhaps.
The National Labor Committee

[wstander]

Not talking about battery life, more to the point of the whole production to end of life emission of a Prius. What with its Canadian(Sudbury, Ontario) mined Nickel-based Batteries, shipped to China for battery manufacturing, then shipped to Japan for battery pack production and then into the vehicle, then ship the vehicle back to N. America(as an example) for sales...

Are Prius batteries the only customer for nickel, or can I find that nickel in my sink, handheld NiMH devices, etc.

A while back, there was an uproar in Detroit over the outsourcing of batteries for the new Volt; Seems LG will be importing modules to be assembled in the USA vice building the entire battery here. Reason is that the Michigan laws prohibit actual battery production due to decades old legislation. Is this alos the case in Japan?

[Alastor]

Are Prius batteries the only customer for nickel, or can I find that nickel in my sink, handheld NiMH devices, etc.

Is your sink or handheld devices touted as 'green' alternatives to similar products in their respect markets. If not then you missed the point, which is even if the Prius is green to 'use', it is not necessarily green to produce or dispose of.

[RacingManiac]

I don't like to talk about such facts albeit undeniable, a we are always fighting for the car with one more bhp or which emits one less gram of CO2, and at the same time we don't have even the shadow of a reliable source for the emissions for the production of batteries, how much they pollute and so on. I'm pretty sure they have quite an impact on the environment, and I'm not saying it isn't something to consider, just with the right sources and figures.

It could even come out that batteries are more toxic than nuclear wastes, I don't care about the outcome, what I care is that it's going to be technical and reliable.

Hybrid Canada: Life Cycle assessment for Honda and Toyota hybrids (HCH-II & Prius II)

Interesting study done by the OEs themselves. You can see that the manufacturing and production stage the Hybrids do emit more. The vehicle lifespan is assumed and it is obvious that the longer it operates the easier it is to break even against the conventionally powered car. Like I said initially, I think the product is well made, but the implementation can be improved, much like the "buy local" arguement for produce product, trying to shorten the supply and manufacturing route can fundamentally improve the process....

FYI, nickel mining in Sudbury, Ontario: Sprol The Inco Mine at Sudbury, Ontario

[LeonOfTheDead]

Hybrid Canada: Life Cycle assessment for Honda and Toyota hybrids (HCH-II & Prius II)

Interesting study done by the OEs themselves. You can see that the manufacturing and production stage the Hybrids do emit more. The vehicle lifespan is assumed and it is obvious that the longer it operates the easier it is to break even against the conventionally powered car. Like I said initially, I think the product is well made, but the implementation can be improved, much like the "buy local" arguement for produce product, trying to shorten the supply and manufacturing route can fundamentally improve the process....

FYI, nickel mining in Sudbury, Ontario: Sprol The Inco Mine at Sudbury, Ontario

I found the first link more usefull than the other, but thanks for both.
That was the kind of data I was talking about.
Even if there is a margin among the emissions producing an hybrid rather than a conventional car, I think it's quite low and much lower than sentences posted here and there on many sites and forums make think.
100.000 km is quite a short life span, still a 2007 Civic Hybrid emits 34% CO2.
Unfortunately many other pollutants aren't considered, which is a bit selfish. While leaving an empty bottle in the middle of the street I didn't emit CO2 (ok, I was breathing, but didn't fart ) still I was polluting.
For the record, I'm one of those recycling plastic, glass, paper and so on. It's getting common in Italy, also at my parents place it's mandatory (we still have undistinguished wastes, but only for what can't be addresses differently).
Even knowing a battery at the end of its life is a bit of a problem, I'd like to know precisely (technically) how much it is going to cost (environmentally I mean), and if that's worst or better than having a conventional car emitting more during it's life span but being easier to dismantle.

[wstander]

Is your sink or handheld devices touted as 'green' alternatives to similar products in their respect markets. If not then you missed the point, which is even if the Prius is green to 'use', it is not necessarily green to produce or dispose of.

No, I asked a simple question for which the OP implied that Sudbury Mine was producing nickel for Prius (and other hybrids, I assume). But fact, nickel is and was used in stainless steel and other items long before NiMH and Prius.

This was one debunked arguement sent out a few years ago purporting to show how a Hummer was 'cleaner' than a Prius...that the pollution at Sudbury was entirely caused by Prius demand...

As I recall, all Prius batteries have a bounty on them, so Toyota actually buys the old batteries; in fact, in the USA even lead-acid batteries are recycled, as are those for power tools, cell phones, etc.

[cargirl1990]

I knew there was something up with Toyota...
I kid, I kid...

[csl177]

I knew there was something up with Toyota...
I kid, I kid...

Jeezuz. If you can't offer a cogent comment that contributes to the dialogue... just lurk. OK? I dont kid.


Interesting thread that peeled off into Canada's role in current hybrids. With the next generation of Lithium batteries,
NiCad packs will be phased out. Expect the rate of technological improvement to be roughly equal to the electronics industry.
And as already mentioned, the recycling of all these materials is increasingly important and financially attractive.

[LeonOfTheDead]

I read Toyota itself didn't used Lithium batteries for the new Prius ust because it was cheaper to stick on old NiCad batteries. The new type was already workin fine, but perhaps they did so not only to save the additional improvement for the next gen but also not to raise a discussion on whether those would have been easier or more difficult to recycle.

[Ferrer]

I read Toyota itself didn't used Lithium batteries for the new Prius ust because it was cheaper to stick on old NiCad batteries. The new type was already workin fine, but perhaps they did so not only to save the additional improvement for the next gen but also not to raise a discussion on whether those would have been easier or more difficult to recycle.

So basically they are giving us a worse car?

[LeonOfTheDead]

So basically they are giving us a worse car?

worse than what it could be, like with petrol engines saving the goods for later updates.
like with everything else.

[G35COUPE]

How ironic the 'ethnical' Prius is made using dodgy labour. Whats even more ironic is the amount of CO2 generated from the research, development and construction of the Prius. Soon enough the windscreen washer bottle will come filled with childs tears as standard!

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!! Nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[G35COUPE]

The Dark Side of the Toyota Prius -- In These Times

Discuss.

I am not a Toyota person, but I get a feeling that the attacks on Toyota will remain relentless since the fall of GM, and since the emergence of their recent product liability problems. Its hard being the top dog in any situation----GM can attest to this. Toyota will need to grow a tough hide and deal with this bad publicity. For them to ignore this bad press will just be as bad as over-reacting to it.

Secondly, I think the article fails to realize that economically speaking, there are two type of economies, labor-intensive economies and capital intensive economies. My view of the article is that Toyota is taking advantage of the cheaper costs associated with producing in labor intensive economies. And, under such conditions, some sort of labor infractions will occur. How much such infractions occur on a routine basis, is another matter open to debate, and open to further studies beyond the report in the article.

In a sense, I am somewhat skeptical of the intent of that article. I beleive that article was designed to arouse the emotions of Toyota haters. And by no means is Toyota a saintly organization, but they deserve a fair shake. These media shake-downs of large corporations is sad.

Thirdly, Toyota has over 2,000 patents on hybrid technology. GM, Ford, and other auto manufacturers, actually pay royalties to Toyota for their hybrid production cars.

Toyota certainly acted within the laws and confines of the nations were it is taking advantage of the existing labor laws, if not, it won't be allowed to operate in those nations. What happened to the media attacking the government of these nations where multi-national corporations like Toyota, exist?

[pimento]

Thirdly, Toyota has over 2,000 patents on hybrid technology. GM, Ford, and other auto manufacturers, actually pay royalties to Toyota for their hybrid production cars.

Not completely accurate there.. Toyota pay Paice LLC royalties on hybrids sold, and Toyota and Ford have a cross licensing agreement for their hybrids.