That's the point for me too.Originally Posted by Coventrysucks
Furniture
That's the point for me too.
Lack of charisma can be fatal.
Visca Catalunya!
The Voice of Reason
Again, you fail to realise that this car isn't trying to save the world.
Who is this magical "they" who should be spending their time differently on other problems? This company figured there would be a market for a high-end electric sports car and put the plan into action. Why the hell would they try to develop buses? That's not their job. Why don't you quit your job and go make a contribution to reducing inner city pollution? It's your job just as much as it is theirs.
I don't know why just because it's electric people assume it has to do the planet a great service. It's another way of doing things, and it works pretty well. Of course carbon neutral doesn't mean anything to you. I didn't mean that it was some kind of selling feature; I was getting that point out of the way so nobody wastes time trying to claim that the production process somehow makes it an environmental disaster (as per usual).
It's the "wrong application for the technology"? Oh, sorry... I must have missed the memo legislating where and when people are allowed to use electricity.
'64
It is painfully obvious that this car is not trying to save the world.
What is it doing though, apart from helping George Cloony et al feel smug?
The people who are developing all these new technologies.
I'm not sitting on a technology that would be perfect for making a "green" electric bus though, am I?
And it is their job - read their website.
Their self proclaimed "goal" is to reduce America's dependence on foreign oil:
"Right now 58% of our oil comes from other countries, so it‘s practically inevitable our foreign policy principles will be held ransom by our need to maintain domestic economic stability. When you consider that 68% of our oil is used for transportation, we believe gasoline-free cars are an ideal solution to these issues."
How are they going to "make a difference" by selling 100 cars to some rich Californian lefties?
If they really want to push electric vehicles into a prominent, viable alternative, sports cars aren't the way to do that.
Similarly, if they only want to make sports cars, electric motors aren't the way to do that, and their marketing spiel nothing more than pathetic fear-mongering.
Not that well, otherwise there would be more companies making similar products.
Electric motors and battery packs are expensive and heavy, produce lots of torque, no emissions and tend to have a limited range.
If you put these things into a large goods vehicle, or a bus or coach - the amount of weight and price you are adding is a small percentage of the total, because they are expensive and heavy to start with.
Buses and trucks also use large diesel engines because they need torque, but this means that they are responsible for a lot of pollution, especially when concentrated in town/city centres.
Buses are also used over quite a small, localised area, so range isn't important.
So, these vehicles would be the ideal application for electric power.
Sports cars tend to be light, and because they are light they tend to need comparatively little torque.
Sports cars use a lot of fuel in singular terms, but as there are few of them on the road, the consumption and emissions are not such a problem.
So, for an electric sports car, you are adding unwanted weight and making a car which is disproportionately expensive compared to its relative specification and overall performance.
A lightweight sports car is not, then, the ideal application for electric power, as it is more of a hindrance than a help to making a good overall package.
The Voice of Reason
If they say the Tesla Roadster itself is going to make any big changes, then yeah, they're totally out to lunch. With the longer term goals in mind it could make a lot of sense though. Why do most companies produce sports cars? Because it's great advertising for their cause. A lot of companies lose money on sports cars but benefit overall for the boost in attention they get. That's what the Tesla is doing. If they can manage to get a bunch of Roadsters out on the streets and show that they really can find a place, it's a huge boost for the public's trust of the technology.
Sports cars are indeed not the key solution to electric vehicles in the future. You'd be nuts to think that. What they may be able to do is help pave the way and get more attention. When costs are high and the company is practically unknown, an expensive low-volume car is a good starting point.
Say what you want about electric cars being a hindrance to the driving experience - I'll leave that to the magazines to test. On another note, what's the point of a good sports car? To drive quickly. Electric motors are highly efficient along all ranges, where as combustion engines are highly inefficient when pushed hard. Thus, for a car built to be driven, the relative savings are higher than its competitors. Especially in places where the "fueling" costs are almost negligible. I'm not saying this is a major point in favour of it, but clearly there are advantages that you haven't cared to think about.
Furniture
Let me disagree here. In my view the mission of a sportscar is to make the drive enjoyable. You can have as much fun at 40 than what you have doing 140mph. And the sound or pushing the engine to the redline is part of the experience in my opinion.
Lack of charisma can be fatal.
Visca Catalunya!
Enthusiast
I agree with you.
I think the main reason why they are making this car is nonetheless to prove that electric cars are practical transportation, trying to undeo the sabotage that the big three did to the Electric car. Hopefully, if this car is a success, the automakers will start expirementing with EVs again.
I have found a new love in the form of a tristar.
The Voice of Reason
Well yes, this is what I meant - I mean to say that pushing your car is the entertaining bit. The engine sound is indeed part of the experience. The Tesla then, is not for you.
'64
A small car with a range of 250 miles and no luggage space != "practical transportation"
Enthusiast
Well, you get my point. The main concern with electric cars was that they wouldn't be able to get good range. If this car can go 250 miles before needing a recharge like they said, then it could prove that electric vehicles can be practical transportation. They may not be able to go on a long road trip, but they could have enough range to get your daily jobs done.
I have found a new love in the form of a tristar.
Fanatic
YAY! Whats it cost again?
Rookie
The only way that the general public is going to accept an alternative to the internal combustion engine is if the stereotypes associated with that alternative are eliminated or at least challenged. Most people view electric cars as glamorized golf karts. Traditionally they have been slow, heavy, and ugly, and this car does a lot convince people that electric cars don't have to be like that. Of course, it is not the first car of its kind, as others such as Venturi and AC Propulsion have already introduced high-performance electric cars with decent range. However, the Tesla is priced significantly lower than either of these. The Tesla sells for under $100,000, while the Venturi is over $300,000. I don't know the exact price of AC Propulsion's T Zero but I remeber it being well over $100,000 and I believe the car is no longer being produced anyway. The anticipated production is also much greater than anything its predecessors achieved, as Tesla has already pre-sold over 300 roadsters. These qualities have allowed this electric car to draw much more attention to the idea of electric vehicles in general.
Although it is true that electric buses and trucks might make a lot of sense in terms of a logical use of battery and electric motor technology, Tesla has determined that an expensive high performance sports car makes more business sense as their first product. Egg nog touched on this a little bit, but maybe it would help if I explain more thoroughly. A small, start-up company like this is going to have a lot of initial expenses for research and development among many other things, so it makes a lot more sense for them to start with a product that will make them a lot of money on each unit. I don't know what their cost per unit or profit margin are for the roadster, but I'm willing to bet that it the profit margin for this kind of car is much greater than it would be for a practical, cheap, commuter car. Another important point to consider is that the demand just isn't there to sell enough cheap electric cars to cover their initial costs. If the Tesla sells very well, which it seems to be, the company plans to introduce a luxury sports sedan priced in the $50,000-$60,000 range. If that sells well, they plan to offer a cheaper family commuter car.
I don't know much about the market for city public transportation vehicles, but I know that the Tesla Roadster fits very nicely into its market, especially in the United States. There are very few cars that can boast the kind of performance figures that Tesla is claiming, and most of them are much more expensive over here. The Elise's straight line performance is really not in the same league as the Tesla, although the Lotus's handling will certainly benefit from its weight advantage over the Tesla. As you probably know, American's tend to be more concerned with straight-line performance than handling, so the slight disadvantage the Tesla might experience in handling will probably not hurt their sales too much. Another thing to consider is that, for the most part, the Elise has not been very popular in the US. The biggest reason for this seems to be that we "fat Americans" are not willing to drive a car that has such tiny interior dimensions. The Tesla is actually slightly larger than the Elise (the chassis has been modified, so it is not the exact same as the Elise's), and this will probably help it appeal to a larger audience than it would if it were the same size.
I can understand some people not liking this car, but I don't understand why some of you seem to think that it isn't significant. I think this company has the potential to completely revolutionize the auto industry. Yes it might take a long time, and they are certainly going to face a lot of obstacles for the next few years, but I think this car has a legitimate chance to set off a chain reaction that results in the widespread adoption of electric vehicles.
Banned
You believe nothing and explain it horribly.
You're telling us that in order for the public to accept a viable alternative to the common engine...a decent example needs to be produced. You're better than Nostradamus. How long did it take for you to figure that one out?
Then you pad your paragraph with about 50 "I don't knows". You are a long way from being me.
Supporting Member
one lucky person then...
"I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams
Enthusiast
For a supposed non believer I thought you explained it all pretty well
In similar vein what is the rationale for expensive sports cars in general, if not to help their owner feel smug? This category of vehicles is basically one big ego-stroke. Why confine this criticism exclusively for the Tesla? Will commuting an M3 or Vette reduce climate change?
Ramp it up to millionaire price-level, way above the Tesla:
Did Mr Bean feel smug crashing his McLaren F1? Is that high profile Paris Hilton trollop representative of Benz SLR clientele?
Regardless of brand, high-end oil-powered sports cars are just different colours of the same rainbow - yet equally so are locked into being just different versions of the same tired oil-based formula
There goes that Ferrari in 4.3 seconds! Lookit that Porsche in 3.9! Gee I'd like to join that .. crowd
Cars = emotion driven purchases, and sports cars only more so. In a market where individualism matters, Tesla tempts buyers and will offer owners a distinct Point of Difference - a change in menu & flavour from the traditional & (to some) dismally typecast fast-food recipe
Enthusiast
Last time I checked, that was a good thing.
I have found a new love in the form of a tristar.
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