Diesel cars in America

[f6fhellcat13]

But anyway, why would you want a 330d over a 330i regardless of fuel consumption?

I was thinking the same thing...

If I wanted a truck, which I don't, I would consider getting a diesel. Otherwise, I don't see why I should want one. To me they aren't really something to personally aspire to, they're a commercial tool for industrial needs.
I just think it's silly when Americans talk about how badly they want diesels; the only reason American gearheads want them is because we can't have them.

[pimento]

Well, the 330d is a six and the 328i (US never had a 330i I think) is now a turbo four, so there's that about it.

[f6fhellcat13]

Well, the 330d is a six and the 328i (US never had a 330i I think) is now a turbo four, so there's that about it.

The E46 was sold here as a 330i and 330ci among other things, I think.

[Ferrer]

Well, the 330d is a six and the 328i (US never had a 330i I think) is now a turbo four, so there's that about it.

Still no, though.

335i, anyway.

[MRR]

I was thinking the same thing...

If I wanted a truck, which I don't, I would consider getting a diesel. Otherwise, I don't see why I should want one. To me they aren't really something to personally aspire to, they're a commercial tool for industrial needs.
I just think it's silly when Americans talk about how badly they want diesels; the only reason American gearheads want them is because we can't have them.

Have you ever driven a newer diesel? They are fast and powerful and very easy to drive. They are no longer just industrial and commercial engines they are sold in sports cars and race cars (Audi has won a number of LeMans races with a diesel vehicle) and everyday passenger cars. If you don't believe me go to your BMW dealer today and test drive a 335d.

[MRR]

Post #68 of this thread links to an old thread where we discussed the break even point of diesels. It was quite high even with European fuel prices, and it'll be even higher with US prices in mind.

But anyway, why would you want a 330d over a 330i regardless of fuel consumption?

There are a couple of stations somewhat close to me that sell B20 biodiesel mixtures that usually run a few tenths of dollar less than 100% petrodiesel. If I ever got one I would take advantage of this all the time.

[Ferrer]

Have you ever driven a newer diesel? They are fast and powerful and very easy to drive. They are no longer just industrial and commercial engines they are sold in sports cars and race cars (Audi has won a number of LeMans races with a diesel vehicle) and everyday passenger cars. If you don't believe me go to your BMW dealer today and test drive a 335d.

I have.

I still cannot understand it.

[culver]

Have you ever driven a newer diesel? They are fast and powerful and very easy to drive. They are no longer just industrial and commercial engines they are sold in sports cars and race cars (Audi has won a number of LeMans races with a diesel vehicle) and everyday passenger cars. If you don't believe me go to your BMW dealer today and test drive a 335d.

I've driven a modern diesel. They are good but still not as good as a modern gasser. I wouldn't complain about a modern diesel or consider is a penance like I would with older ones but I still don't like it as much as the current crop of gas cars.

[Clivey]

for the benefit of all of us, who also want to keep using mineral fuels?????

So what do diesels use then? Diesel isn't the answer if preserving the Earth's current climate (impossible task - it's a constantly changing thing, human intervention or not) is your main priority.

I drive a modern diesel, as you know, and can't wait to get back to the responsiveness and eagerness of a good petrol. I bought it (diesel) when I was a student - I couldn't afford the insurance costs of a 2.0-litre petrol (insurance is out of control in the UK) and decided to go with tractor fuel to save some pennies. Now that I've moved within 3 miles of my workplace, the engine doesn't get chance to warm up (diesels take longer than petrols) and fuel economy is as low as the aforementioned 2.0-litre petrol would display in the same conditions.

Responsiveness is dire. - Sometimes I wonder if the message between accelerator pedal and the engine is sent via telegram! It renders blipping the throttle on a downchange pointless and you can't use it to balance the car (no throttle adjustability like you'd get in a free-revving petrol).

In addition, the eco (tall) gearing is awful. You have to slip the clutch below 10-mph in 2nd as a workaround for the anti-stall and on the slightest of gradients, if you drop below 1,800rpm (roughly equivalent to 2,800rpm in a petrol), you have to change down a gear. Our petrol Corsa might be less powerful, but it's a much nicer engine to drive - after getting out of the C4, I can't wait to wake-up the Corsa's second cam!

...and that's before you consider the weight penalties of a diesel and the fact that it spoils the handling of the car as it's all concentrated in the nose - understeer-tastic!

To the Americans in this thread: You don't realise how lucky you are not to have to consider "diseasel"! If the Mustang GT was as affordable here as it is to you guys, I'd get my ass down to the showroom so fast you'd feel a sonic boom!

[Ferrer]

It renders blipping the throttle on a downchange pointless

It's not impossible, just far more difficult.

[henk4]

So what do diesels use then? Diesel isn't the answer if preserving the Earth's current climate (impossible task - it's a constantly changing thing, human intervention or not) is your main priority.

I think you are misunderstanding me....what I meant is that we all want to keep using the finite resources of mineral fuel as long as possible, and therefore sharing becomes an issue. So it is for the benefit of all of us that we should look for the most frugal way of using mineral fuel, and I think there is no denying that with equal performance, a diesel engine will take considerably less of a scarce resource thasn a petrol engine..

[Clivey]

I think you are misunderstanding me....what I meant is that we all want to keep using the finite resources of mineral fuel as long as possible, and therefore sharing becomes an issue. So it is for the benefit of all of us that we should look for the most frugal way of using mineral fuel, and I think there is no denying that with equal performance, a diesel engine will take considerably less of a scarce resource than a petrol engine..

I agree that in normal everyday cars, diesels achieve the same peak performance whilst using considerably less fuel than petrols, yes.

However, my opinion is that for mainstream cars, trucks, buses etc. we should be investing heavily in alternatives (probably vehicles using electric motors to power the wheels) and weaning mainstream production off it's dependency on fossil fuels. That way, those that actually give a damn would still be able to use an insignificant amount to power IC-engined enthusiasts' cars without causing a problem.

[henk4]

It renders blipping the throttle on a downchange pointless

next time get a synchronised gearbox, it does help.

[pimento]

You don't so much blip the throttle in a diesel, you bloop it. It needs a firmer depression. I used to do it when I was pootling about in utes and small trucks.

[henk4]

You don't so much blip the throttle in a diesel, you bloop it. It needs a firmer depression. I used to do it when I was pootling about in utes and small trucks.

the last diesel I had to apply d-d clutching was this one, and we are talking 1969....going down from 3 to 2 meant blipping until it hit the rev limiter (2200).

And for what it is worth, the C3 1.6 Hdi that we have since the middle of this year and has the same engine as Clivey's C4, is not as lethargic as being described, it feels actually much more powerful and direct than the 100 BHP Fiat Stilo that it replaced (1.6 petrol engine).