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Thread: Myth or Truth?

  1. #31
    Join Date
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    just a few factual comments to start with. The fastest recorded 400 meter lap is 24.44 secs, done in the 500 meter world record race by Jermy Wotherspoon in Salt Lake City, November 2007. There may have been faster times, but this is the one I could find, as it resulted in a world record.
    Contrary to cycling, skaters reach their topspeeds while cornering, as the technique allows them to accelerate more than on the straight line. Finally a skater never has his two legs extended at the SAME time. He will sit as low as he can, also in view of drag. Try to find a video of Enrico Fabris and you'll see what I mean.
    More next week.
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  2. #32
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    Thanks for those points. In hindsight, I did notice that skaters do not extend both legs at once. I think it depends on the standard of the athlete. I do not tend to see recreational skaters tucked in as much as elite athletes, obviously, which is what led me to make that comment. The same is true of the riding position of recreational cyclists compared with professional racers. I suppose that the aerodynamics of the body end up being roughly equivalent, with the bicycle itself being a source of drag that the skater does not have. On that basis, the cyclist would be slightly less efficient than the skater.

    I was aware that skaters use the corners to gain speed, but I was under the impression that ultimately the available grip limited the speed more so than the power of the skater. I take it, then, that the skater cannot apply enough force to cause the ice to fail or the skate to slip, without having made some other mistake first? Would it be realistic to expect that a short track might give rise to higher speeds? A more relevant question may be whether or not a skater can achieve their peak efficiency in a straight line. The skating action through the corners lacks the side-to-side motion, visible in a straight line, that I am guessing is a loss of efficiency. Requiring rapid, frequent, high-speed corners to maintain efficiency sounds like a great way to get to work, but I would guess that the extra distance covered while slaloming to the shops would probably negate the efficiency gains.

    Your time for the fastest lap is consistent with my rough timing, so a top speed of 58km/h or so, seems like a reasonable estimate. What I wanted to find was a directly comparable value - the maximum speed achieved by a skater in a straight line, compared with the same for a bicycle, but as I said, I was not easily able to find any such record. I think that the top speed achieved by a cyclist is about 130km/h, on level ground with no tailwind. That required a streamlined recumbent bicycle. As recumbent ice skates are somewhat thin on the ground, a direct comparison with such a figure would be problematic.

    The top speed of a conventional upright sprint or race bicycle ranges from about 70-85km/h, according to what I have seen and can find. I will stand by the conclusion the at high speed, the bicycle wins, but at low speed the ice skater may win. That will depend upon how much energy the skater uses at low speed to maintain balance, and the efficiency of the skating action at low speed, both of which are unknown to me. Any further information or ideas would be appreciated.
    Last edited by MilesR; 07-09-2010 at 12:47 AM.

  3. #33
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    Aug 2010
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    Either way, cool outfits!

  4. #34
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    Sep 2003
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    San Fernando Valley, Calif.
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    I did not find the original article about this topic, but I did find the paper where I wrote the information on. It is dated Nov. 25, 1981.

    Transportation: Most and Least Efficient:

    From least to most...

    Helicopter
    Large car
    Train (regular)
    Airplane
    Train (electric)
    Bus
    Small car
    Two-level (double-decker) bus
    Broad gauge train
    Electric bicycle
    Bicycle
    '76 Cadillac Fleetwood Seventy-Five Limousine, '95 Lincoln Town Car.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    1,350
    Since we're talking efficiency here, I guess we have to take the all-important CO2 emissions into account since that's the buzz term of the moment.

    I don't know about everyone else, but it's been a while since I subjected myself to any other form of exercise apart from working out the fingers on the old keyboard. I'd probably huff quite a couple of deep breaths after only a couple of meters, meaning a lot of CO2 production so in my case not very green and politically correct.

    On a more serious note, I'd take a guess and say it probably is efficient as far as it gets you where you want to be faster than walking or running would. You probably expend less energy than you would by walking or running the same distance as well, plus no pollution to speak of, apart from the already mentioned CO2 escaping the old lungs and whatever you had to eat prior to setting off on the journey (the fuel in this case).

    Speaking under correction, if the human body could be seen as a machine, it's regarded as one of the most efficient(?). Since our bodies are the engines when it comes to bicycling, I guess it probably is efficient when only taking into account how much energy is used to cover a particular distance.

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