Australian car industry bailout

[Ferrer]

finally, never heard of the mentioned vast experience GM has with cylinder deactivation, any examples?

Camaro and G8 have cyilinder deactivation in their V8 versions.

[Kitdy]

They were the first company I heard of using it - I remember they utilized it in the Cien concept as well as the Impala maybe? Yeah, it was Displacement on Demand, now Active Fuel Management.

Seems as thought they were the populariser of it in the 80's with Cadillac.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Camaro and G8 have cyilinder deactivation in their V8 versions.

that's now, not experience

They were the first company I heard of using it - I remember they utilized it in the Cien concept as well as the Impala maybe? Yeah, it was Displacement on Demand, now Active Fuel Management.

Seems as thought they were the populariser of it in the 80's with Cadillac.

I wouldn't include a concept as a sort of experience, but the Cadillac thigh was perhaps what he meant.

[clutch-monkey]

Camaro and G8 have cyilinder deactivation in their V8 versions.

makes sweet f*ck all difference though. the commodore doesn't have it (in favour of retaining a manual) but the G8 does; the difference is 1 MPG. i don't know if that changes in real world tests but yeah...
+1 for a decent diesel

[Kitdy]

I wouldn't include a concept as a sort of experience, but the Cadillac thigh was perhaps what he meant.

They introduced it several cars about 5 years ago as well - it seems that they led the renaissance of the technology.

I would consider them the most experienced of all manufacturers.

[SlickHolden]

I'm amazed at this thread is atleast trying to keep positivity up. You guys can find something positive out of this. Which is great. Considering some well all the post i have seen on commodore forum is negativity and nothing else.

Tall_G i have heard about auto's that use 2nd gear to take off. I think Falcon ZF uses this technology already. Holden could find it and use it. Plus if honda can use cylinder deactivation on their engines holden must be able to find something from GM.

Clutch i think as of jan 2009 holden will use cylinder deactivation in V8 models.

[fpv_gtho]

What about offering the V6 in a smaller capacity for base models (3.2's are produced alongside the 3.6 already)? No, not a repeat of the 4 cylinder Commodores of the 80's, which were almost dangerously underpowered and worked the engines too hard.
Ford's old slugger does a bloody good job for an anchor, but is due for replacement with a US sourced V6 anyway..

A smaller engine might give a lower official government fuel rating, and probably use less on the highway but for everyday real world use it wouldnt be any better. The engine needs to be right-sized for the car. Years ago when they were 1500kg, that was something like the 3.5L Mitsu V6 or the Ecotec. The 4L I6 was too big and used more fuel than the 2 V6's. Now theyre punching out 1700-1800kg and its the Ford using less fuel.

Tall_G i have heard about auto's that use 2nd gear to take off. I think Falcon ZF uses this technology already. Holden could find it and use it.

Its just a program to select 2nd gear on take off when theres low engine load and throttle demand. IIRC its there to provide a smoother take off than to have an economical benefit.

[SlickHolden]

Sounds good fpv and easy something you would hope they do sooner rather then later..

With acceleration in the VT lucky it was the lighter series 2.. At 80 it only takes 4 seconds to hit 110 or about 5.5 to 120. That isn't bad at all. And that is more because it's lighter then a VE Berlina maybe by 300kg. 28kw 21Nm nothing much with that lard.

So if reducing size is the only way to reduce weight, I'm with it. I sat for 2 hours in the back of a VR some years ago with a 6 footer in front, It wasn't bad on a hot day.

My car on rebook fuel economy is ratted @ 9l/100km overall going on their ratting system.

[Tall_G]

[QUOTE=LeonOfTheDead;845364]LPG here had been used for decades with excellent results. even if the performance delivered by the engine are inferior, the mileage is drastically improved, and emissions tests demonstrated is "green" too. Methane is even more efficient, but it costs slightly more than LPG (GPL here), both to adopt and as a fuel.

They use a higher volume of fuel compared to a petrol car. Agreed, they have less of the particluates, etc, but not a lot less CO2. Incidentally I worked for a company that was involved as a supplier to an organisation developing flat LPG tanks with the hope of converting Chinese city taxi fleets, to reduce the pollution. I left before any significant progress was made so don't know if they succeeded.

proper hybrid aren't just based on start-stop systems or kers-relate systems. here the only hybrid available right now are the Prius, the Lexus GS/LS/RX and the Civic. then you have the EfficientDynamics from BMW, and start-stop systems in many other cars.
the good thing about hybrids is that, even if maybe (never read reliable facts) they are overall as pollutants as other cars considering the whole life of the batteries too, they pollute less while driving. this is very important since you are going to breath cleaner air. then even if a battery is very dangerous for our health, it is something stocked, not breathable, you cant touch directly its acids without braking it in some way, so it's a "better" form of pollution and more tractable. once you have released COx, NOx or particulate in the air, you can't remove then. the batteries can be stocked waiting to be recycled in some way (as far it regards me, you can send all of them once a month on the Sun and let them burn).
the point is: with hybrids the air is cleaner, and it's a damn thing to clean once you have polluted it.

I agree about the pollutants issue when the hybrids are running electrically, but have you ever read thec driving instructions for a Prius? Gentle acceleration, keep under 90km/h, etc. You might as well buy a small diesel sedan and drive it the same way, the fuel use would be comparable.

[QUOTE=fpv_gtho;845442]A smaller engine might give a lower official government fuel rating, and probably use less on the highway but for everyday real world use it wouldnt be any better. The engine needs to be right-sized for the car. Years ago when they were 1500kg, that was something like the 3.5L Mitsu V6 or the Ecotec. The 4L I6 was too big and used more fuel than the 2 V6's. Now theyre punching out 1700-1800kg and its the Ford using less fuel.

Agreed if the step down is significant, hence my comment about those awful 4 cylinder Commodores, especially the VN. God, I feel like vomiting at the very thought of a 1.9L VN stationwagon trying to climb a hill....
The 3.2 Alloytec is used widely by other branches of GM and some other auot makers. Chuck it in the base spec with the lowest weight with 5 speed strapped to its back, teach the bloody poor sales rep who gets to drive it how to drive economically and make it part of his measly bonus, hey presto!

[SlickHolden]

Please don't mention 4 cylinder and commodore in the same website please. POS!!!

I'm still shocked there is no positivity on a car enthusiasts website that is there because of holden and named after them. To be honest they are open liberals supporters. And have moaned the government has bailed out the car industry for 50 years now. And yet today they think that money should be placed into transport only.
Fair enough, But here we sit as car enthusiasts because of either holden or ford or their parent company's - And we fell in love with cars that way or another. Yet they will rather see the industry die ?. Enthusiasts ? Not ****en likely. And off they drive in their V8 450kw cars.

[Ferrer]

+1 for a decent diesel

Indeed. If you really want to save fuel diesel is the way to go.

Why don't you have diesels in your big cars over there? It seems like a logical choice.

Are the Euro cars available with diesels, or those aren't either?

[IBrake4Rainbows]

In Australia Diesel fuel is of a much poorer quality than In europe.

It is also significantly more expensive.

There are quite a few european models with Diesel engines available, but mostly because of the increased cost of purchase and the fact you'll only see the benefits after 3 or so years of driving, most people just stick with the Petrol version.

[clutch-monkey]

golf tdi's seem to use it no problem?

[Ferrer]

golf tdi's seem to use it no problem?

Maybe the older pumpe düse technology copes better with poorer diesel?

[fpv_gtho]

The last few years theyve been bringing in low sulphur diesel, but its still behind Europe for quality.

Theres also a stronger perception of what types of vehicles diesels belong in, such as 4WD's. Even then, alot of people would choose a diesel for more than the economical benefits as a turbo diesel Landcruiser could be $8-10K more than the petrol equivalent.