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Thread: BMW 5-Series (F10) Sedan 2010-2015

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead View Post
    This, and the safe choice for this segment is the Audi A6, that's officially the car for slightly rich old men who don't car about cars but won't to look good in one. The 5er is a more of a choice, as an E-Klasse.
    The A6, as all front engined Audis, is for people who don't understand cars not a safe choice.
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  2. #77
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    so i think it is a good looking car, but as has been said, not very revolutionary. the problem for the 5 series is that it has so many different jobs to do, that it can't afford to be too radical. it has to appease the masses as the 528, and be something luxurious and fast in the 550, and then be an absolute hooligan in the M5. i think all of the interestingness will be found in the M5 when it comes about, and this provides them a good canvas to make a solid looking M5 in the theme of the pre-E60 M5s.

    my one qualms with the car, the back end looks just like an infinti M. the tail lights are the same shape, and has the same proportions. i don't think it looks bad, but it doesnt look very german.
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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    The A6, as all front engined Audis, is for people who don't understand cars not a safe choice.
    And for that reason their safe choice, you don't go wrong in quality/look and the likes, and you don't have to wonder if yo are into a sporty drive or a comfy seat (stereotypes).
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  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmcpokey View Post
    so i think it is a good looking car, but as has been said, not very revolutionary. the problem for the 5 series is that it has so many different jobs to do, that it can't afford to be too radical. it has to appease the masses as the 528, and be something luxurious and fast in the 550, and then be an absolute hooligan in the M5. i think all of the interestingness will be found in the M5 when it comes about, and this provides them a good canvas to make a solid looking M5 in the theme of the pre-E60 M5s.

    my one qualms with the car, the back end looks just like an infinti M. the tail lights are the same shape, and has the same proportions. i don't think it looks bad, but it doesnt look very german.
    Exactly my thoughts too, but the M45 has been facelifted already (Japanese version), so I don't think they'll look alike any longer.

    Certainly an improvement over the last 5 series.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead View Post
    And for that reason their safe choice, you don't go wrong in quality/look and the likes, and you don't have to wonder if yo are into a sporty drive or a comfy seat (stereotypes).
    Buy you do go wrong in steering, handling, ride comfort,... which is quite a lot wrong if you ask me.
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  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    Buy you do go wrong in steering, handling, ride comfort,... which is quite a lot wrong if you ask me.
    Not if you didn't know and didn't want to know about cars, which is the case with most of the buyers in this segment (let alone among A6 buyers).

    Of all the brands out there, Audi always appeared to me as the most lacking in the personality department. That ended up being their best card along with the usual quality requirements and the understated design.
    I just don't get how the A3 came to be a "cool car" spoiled dudes.
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  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead View Post
    Not if you didn't know and didn't want to know about cars, which is the case with most of the buyers in this segment (let alone among A6 buyers).

    Of all the brands out there, Audi always appeared to me as the most lacking in the personality department. That ended up being their best card along with the usual quality requirements and the understated design.
    I just don't get how the A3 came to be a "cool car" spoiled dudes.
    That's precisely the problem. Everyone who has an Audi thinks it's the best sports saloon to ever grace the earth, when in fact they are pretty terrible. Which way it's not a safe choice. I'm sorry but, as you say, it's the choice for idiots who pretend to know a lot about cars.

    The crucial difference is, the 5er and the Golf are good cars. And therefore safe choices.
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
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  8. #83
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    Ferrer, what if I WANT to be an idiot and drive Audi? And consider it as the greatest sports saloon ever.

    What is so fundamentally wrong with that?

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revo View Post
    Ferrer, what if I WANT to be an idiot and drive Audi? And consider it as the greatest sports saloon ever.

    What is so fundamentally wrong with that?
    Fine.

    Except that you don't.
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  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    That's precisely the problem. Everyone who has an Audi thinks it's the best sports saloon to ever grace the earth, when in fact they are pretty terrible. Which way it's not a safe choice. I'm sorry but, as you say, it's the choice for idiots who pretend to know a lot about cars.

    The crucial difference is, the 5er and the Golf are good cars. And therefore safe choices.
    In our view it isn't the safe/best/common/ideal choice, but it is in their mind.

    In my book even the 5er or the Golf aren't the safe choice tbh.
    The E-Klasse might be it, as over here the 5er and so almost all BMWs always bring a little of arrogance in the face of their owners, that superior glance they cast on you even when you're driving something they don't even know what it is (let alone if they now if they are driving a 4 or 6 cylinder model).
    The Mercedes on the other hand is the safe bet for the ordinary driver. It's solid and reliable (previous gen pre-restyling aside), maintained a god residual value, looks good (as in "white paint looks good on every wall") and it's what you expect a mid-aged driver to have under his ass.

    That, and the Golf (V and VI) despite being a good car, it isn't so much better than the rest of the field, actually if we bring into the picture value for money too, I think there are better deals out there. The Golf is just what everyone used to buy because it was so damn good and therefore they continue to buy it. It's a habit.

    Everything from the point of view of that damn a***ole called Guido .
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  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    Fine.

    Except that you don't.
    Not fine, mate. You said there is a problem.

    So I'll ask again.

    Why is it a problem for you that the world is full of idiotic Audi owners who think it as the best sports saloon ever?

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wouter Melissen View Post
    Why? You don't like power?
    I'd rather sacrifice power for less turbo lag and higher revs.

    Say what you want about turbo lag being largely non-existent, even the best anti-lag systems still produce it - notably, the 997 Turbo is not yet free of it.

    I see the near-future wide scale adoption of turbos as a substitution for larger displacement naturally aspirated engines as a way of getting better fuel mileage and CO2 emissions, not better for driver dynamics.

    There's also something of about natural aspiration I like - I enjoy the simplicity of the design, the purity of it.

    In your case Wouter, I know you like many classic cars (not sure if you'd like to own them, but for this purpose let's assume you do). Even though they may be inferior in performance, or economy, or whatever, there is a certain appeal about them, be it their style, their classiness, their je ne sais quoi that you like that you'd trade for a car that was almost in all respects objectively better. I see naturally aspirated engines as having a special quality - a purity I'd call it - that forced induction engines to me don't have. Natural aspirations simplicity is it's elegance. Call me an idiot (I call Ferrer one all the time) but this is just a Ferrerism of mine to an extent - a fetishism of natural aspiration.

    When I learn of electronic steering on the 5, this also saddens me. It's just another way of removing the driver form the road. BMW's EfficientDynamics motto is: Less Emissions. More driving pleasure. I don't really think is true. I think the drive for more economical vehicles at least in the short term is gonna make for cars that are less of a pleasure to drive. This new 5 series, although still hardly economical, has taken a step with turbos and electronic steering and that's a shame I think - a necessity, but a shame.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revo View Post
    Not fine, mate. You said there is a problem.

    So I'll ask again.

    Why is it a problem for you that the world is full of idiotic Audi owners who think it as the best sports saloon ever?
    You are playing the devil's adovcate here, I know.

    If only they'd leave us alone. But no, they come and tell you how good their Audi is. And another problem is that this leads many people who have never driven one to believe that they are very good.

    I have to say, kudos to the Audi marketing team but it's a bit annoying that they get such a recognition they simply don't deserve. And others which should are languishing on the dealer lots as oddballs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kitdy View Post
    When I learn of electronic steering on the 5, this also saddens me. It's just another way of removing the driver form the road. BMW's EfficientDynamics motto is: Less Emissions. More driving pleasure. I don't really think is true. I think the drive for more economical vehicles at least in the short term is gonna make for cars that are less of a pleasure to drive. This new 5 series, although still hardly economical, has taken a step with turbos and electronic steering and that's a shame I think - a necessity, but a shame.
    I will still be brilliant though. If you want a pure driving experience, it's no good looking at contemporary cars, you've got to go second hand.

    If you want a good driving experience this, together with the XF, will probably be near the top of the segment.
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
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  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    I will still be brilliant though. If you want a pure driving experience, it's no good looking at contemporary cars, you've got to go second hand.

    If you want a good driving experience this, together with the XF, will probably be near the top of the segment.
    So you've illuminated my point almost perfectly - cars are regressing in the fun to drive category in the name of progress and efficiency.

    Would you buy this over an E39? I wouldn't.

    Jesus I am turning into Ferrer.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitdy View Post
    So you've illuminated my point almost perfectly - cars are regressing in the fun to drive category in the name of progress and efficiency.

    Would you buy this over an E39? I wouldn't.

    Jesus I am turning into Ferrer.
    I wouldn't either, and I'm not Ferrer.
    These new BMWs just seem cold, turbo or not.
    I do prefer naturally aspirated engines, but I'm also getting used to the idea of turbos.
    As you said, it's a necessity, while they are trying to sell it to us as a cool thing.
    If we were still dealing with emissions regulations of 10 years ago, we'd still have the same old straight 6, while if the regulations would have been even tougher, we would just have electric cars, or something.
    Regardless, they would still call it cool, top notch, best of the best, and so on.

    I'm more a "fan" of mild hybrids than turbocharged cars, even if the applications up to now weren't that exiting.
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