The Pony Car War Version 2.0

[Kitdy]

First off, I hoped you liked the title - so noughties of me eh?

Well as I hope all of you know, we have been in the middle the full blown second coming of the Pony Car Wars.

What with the Camaro, Challenger, and Mustang, you've got a choice of three models, each with their own engine choices - from the 3.6L LLT in the base Camaro to the 6.1L Hemi in the SRT8 Challenger, there certainly is a lot of options - 7 engine choices for the 3 cars to be exact.

This thread is about who's winning the pony car wars - I dunno where to find sales figures for individual models and have tried looking but all I get is "Camaros on Sale!" etc. So if you guys know where we can find sales figures it'd be great. Also, are these cars making money?

This thread is also about comparing these cars, and if you care, which you'd have and why. Feel free to post comparos here - this should be Pony Car Wars Part 2 Central on UCP.

Have at it!

[baddabang]

Having seen and been in each of a Mustang GT, Challenger, and just yesterday I was snooping around the local Chevy dealer and playing with a Camaro SS with the 6.2L V8 in Orange.

First and most notably is the Mustang and it's lack of horsepower. The GT only has 315, compared to the Camaro SS at 426, and the Challenger at 425.

The interior of the Camaro SS blows the other two out of the water. The challenger makes it feel like I'm sitting in a Grand Cherokee, and the Mustang makes me feel like I'm sitting in... Well, a Mustang. An automatic transmission is also standard on the Challenger, In fact I have yet to see one that is manual.

The Mustang is the smallest of the Three in size which is a plus for me. The Challenger is the biggest and it is BIG. The Camaro is large but It's not huge.

So what would I pick to have? Camaro, Mustang, Challenger. In that order. Not just because of my loyalty to General Motors but because the Camaro is an animal. Just sitting on the lot it has a presence that says I'm going to kick your ass and eat your children. $37,000 is a bit steep though.

[clutch-monkey]

thanks for the review badda
for me the camaro is sort of the weakest on looks (that's not saying much though is it?), but..if the interior is better, and that's where you are when you drive it..
plus.. GS racer!

[pimento]

I guess the power deficiency of the Mustang should be addressed when the 5.0 V8 lands.. and the ecoboost if they do it. As far as Challenger manuals go, I heard the R/T was going to be available with a manual.. that was before it appeared though, so no idea if it actually happened.

[NSXType-R]

Enjoy it while it lasts, it won't last all that much longer.

I'd get the Camaro.

[Rasmus]

A month ago I was out looking at a C5 Z06 and a C6 Z51, so take that as an indication of me not being biased despite my current choice of car. Also, I have been out test driving each of the following cars: Challenger SRT8 AT and MT, Challenger R/T AT, 2009 Mustang GT500, 2010 Mustang GT MT and GT MT plus track pack, and finally the Camaro SS and RS.


Exterior
Let it be known that I’m not a fan of the 2010 Mustang redesign. I’ve studied it well, and while I’m cool with the front, the rear end is just not for me. I’m fairly certain somewhere in the facelift process some retarded engineer got in the way of the designers and forced them to compromise. That said, if you are able to look at the car from an angle that hides the rear, it does look good. It looks like a pony car should.

The SS has a decidedly mean and imposing look going, and it does it well, but I think the front has some unfortunate angles to it. The area of the front quarter panels just behind the grill looks bloated for instance. However, while I like the overall badass look, I think it will detract some potential buyers who don’t necessarily want a car that looks like it eats Hyundais for lunch every day. I somehow think the Camaro design will grow old before either the Challenger or the Mustang – but I’m probably way off.

The SRT8, to me, has the most successful overall retro design. It works well from every angle. But it’s huge. It’s friggin huge, and that’s why I can’t give it the win. Getting into a Challenger almost makes you want to shout “all hands on deck!”.

SS = SRT8 = GT

Interior
The interior of the SRT8 is simply bland, boring and uninspiring. If it weren't for the small windows you'd think you were in a Chrysler 300C. Dodge got the outside right, but it seems like they completely ignored the necessity for an appealing inside. Sure, the interior works, but there’s little retro and even less pony car about it.

Both GT and SS have the right retro feel going when you’re in the driver’s seat. The GT recently got the interior update - a much needed update I might add - but it still lacks a bit in the quality of the materials used. While I prefer the design of the GT, the SS is just a bit better put together. I’m not as amazed as some at the SS interior, but I certainly like it.

I could live with either one – I’m actually quite content with the old GT interior – but if I had to pick one, I’d go for the SS.

SS > GT > SRT8

Handling
Handling wise I would have to go for the GT with the optional track pack. Compared to the SS it feels more aggressive, more alive, and sharper. Yes, there’s the live rear, and it does step out a bit every now and again, but it doesn’t detract from the fact that the GT actually does go around corners. You get the feeling that the car is smaller and lighter than it really is, and for me that translates into a more inviting ride. One that I prefer.

The SS feels planted. That’s the best way I can describe it. While it rolls a bit going into a turn, it grips well and stays there. It feels very well sorted, and it made me feel confident behind the wheel. Still, the steering is not quite as sharp as on the GT, and I actually believe the GT grips a bit better.

The SRT8, well, it's a boat. It’s big, and it’s heavy. You have a much higher seating position than in the SS and GT, and that sort of makes you feel like the captain of the good ship MS Challenger. Not a fan. Good for a cross country road trip though.

GT > SS > SRT8

Performance
The SS is faster than the GT. Pony fanboys will deny it, and Maro lovers will exaggerate it, but it doesn’t mean it isn't necessarily true. Even though it feels bigger and heavier than the GT, the SS also feels – and is – faster. It’s as simple as that. That said, there’s not the big difference that simply looking at the numbers suggests. While the GT certainly looks underpowered compared to the SS on paper, driving the two suggests they’re not far apart.

The SRT8 while not necessarily slow does feel unnecessarily sluggish. Even compared to my at the time stock 300bhp GT, the big Hemi didn’t impress me much. Don’t get me wrong, it’s quite capable of reaching comfortably illegal cruising speeds – but you still get the feeling that the speedo should read knots and not mph.

An interesting observation - to me at least - is that the auto SRT8 feels faster than the manual. Not what you'd expect, but that's the way I felt after having tried an auto and a manual SRT8 back to back.

SS > GT > SRT8

Overall
So, when it comes down to it, the GT feels like a smaller car than it is, and the Camaro simply feels overall well rounded. My pick between the two would be the SS. Only when – and if – the 5.0 makes a return in the GT will I reconsider.

That said, I find it interesting most people will compare base V8 to base V8, blindly ignoring the fact that the GT500 is still out there. If people are willing to spring for a spec’ed up SS, a GT500 is not that far away – especially not now seeing how the 2009 GT500s can be found new for less than $40k out the door. I honestly believe the GT500 is simply the overall better choice. I know of at least two people who have opted for a GT500 instead of an SS, and I have the feeling that there are other performance enthusiasts out there doing the same. This will change as the 2010 GT500 takes the place of the 2009, but for now the latter wins.

Comparing the LT to the GT is an exercise in futility. The LT and the V6 Mustang, however, is a much more interesting comparison. While the LT certainly is faster and better put together, I think the Mustang will sell better. People going for a V6 will most likely be going for looks and price over performance, and the Mustang is going to be the cheapest option out there. I know the LT starts at $23k, but I am yet to find one that carried a sticker price of less than $25k. Some have even been as high as $29k. For a V6! I think Ford will definitely win the V6 market, and I don't see the LT changing that.

The Challengers.. no, just no. The base V6 models are pointless, the R/T too slow, and the SRT8 feels like an old quarterback longing for the glory years of high school. While it will still sell, I don’t think any of the Challenger offerings will beat either Mustangs nor Camaros. The SRT8 is not a bad car. It's just that the SS and GT are both better options when it comes to picking a pony car.

So, to sum it up:
Best selling pony car: V6 Mustang
V8 pony car: SS
Performance pony car: GT500

[cmcpokey]

excellent writeup Ras. i would give yoe a +1 if the rep system existed. very enlightening and informative, and really cemented the opinions i already had.

[f6fhellcat13]

From my armchair with no real-world experience with any of them my gut tells me 'Stang, SS, and mentally-challenged whale.
My reasons, flimsy as they are, for these choices:

The Mustang is light and small. It's lightness is the single most attractive feature. I have also heard that visibility and whatnot are much greater than the competition's due to their chunkier b-pillars and higher beltlines (a nice styling trait taken much too far in current cars, imo). My only real bone to pick with the 'Stang is the lack of a six-speed on all save the GT500, and the slightly awkward rear end.

The exterior of the Camaro, from the front at least, disappoints me. It is much too reminiscent of Cadillac's "Art & Design" theme than a cohesive old-style Camaro theme. I personally prefer the look of the facelifted 4th gen. However, the back end is nice and that interior is sublime. I am also a huge fan of the LSx, so that's another box ticked for the SS. Overall, as Rasmus said, the package is good, but it is let down (at least compared to the Mustang) by a few niggling faults. I also don't think the interior is much bigger than the 'Stangs (making that a bad excuse for its size), so I can't help but think how much better it would have been if it was downsized a bit.

When I say I like these two's styling that is saying a lot. I was never a huge fan, and now I am really getting tired of retro, and especially the current style of retro. Raise the beltline, make sure the beltline travels upward so as to give the car an excessively fat ass, and give it HUJE REEIMS, YO!11! I was bitterly disappointed when the original retro 'Stang didn't get coke-bottle-hips, for instance, and instead got the wedge treatment. So I feel like the new Ford is a much more cohesive design, now that the wedge has been toned down and there is a little kick up over the rear wheels, and that the Camaro, despite its unsuccessful front is a decent looking car.

The Challenger really really annoys me. I have seen a very good number and they are almost universally driven by twats. That car's customers can put any Audi driver to shame. Also, with designers making more and more four-door coupes, it was only logical for Dodge to make a two-door sedan. This thing's flabby sides, and generally heavy styling mar a classic that really did nothing to deserve it. It's weight, though, is what annoys me the most. There is simply no good reason for it to be that heavy. Yes, I know it was built on the 300's platform, but I don't think that justifies its black-hole-inducing mass.

[cargirl1990]

i read a comparison in Motor Trend which upon had the big three muscle cars on there. i read that and the Camaro SS kicked butt. why? becuase even though the Challenger may have 6.1 liter V8 Hemi with 425bhp, the car is huge compared to its competition. the Mustang GT has a V8 engine with 315bhp. the Camaro SS? 525bhp to say the least.

[f6fhellcat13]

525bhp

What?

[clutch-monkey]

^ typo i'd say

[Ferrer]

Great review(s) indeed Rasmus, very informative and well written. And as Brendon said, more or less confirmed what I thought.

[cargirl1990]

What?

yes, i kid you not, im sure of it. it has a 'Vette engine.

[f6fhellcat13]

yes, i kid you not, im sure of it. it has a 'Vette engine.

Corvette engines do not live in 500-hp land, only in 400 and 600.

[Ferrer]

Corvette engines do not live in 500-hp land, only in 400 and 600.

In the Z06 they definitely do.