BMW Z4M Coupe / Porsche Cayman S / TVR Sagaris

[Ferrer]

It's true, but they still make damned good cars.
I saw the Panmera in Car Magazine yesterday, and I have to say it looks great!

Yes I agree they still make some good cars (like the 911 GT3 for instance, altough the name now sounds a bit stupid). But the Cayenne and the Panamera have done enough damage for me not to care much about Porsche anymore.

[Ingolstadt]

Regardless, porsche built a damn good car.

They already had one, 911. They build the lesser, to capitalize on the available market. Boxster's a good car as well, but it looked gay, so add a top, update a bit, WALLA! A damn good car.

I'll give a different example, when Lambo launch Gallardo with 20hp less than Murcielago, one might think they're insane from the marketing point of view, the way Italians solve problems? LP640.

That's the difference between a company that's passion driven, and one that's profit driven, regardless which produces a better product.

By the way, Posrches must be good, likewise BMW must be RWD.

[matek]

TVR are for me a design which are extravogant but dont do what ferrari's new cars do which is make the driver out to be a snob. I have to say the image is the same for the BMW.

The TVR also for what you pay is imense in the levels of performance noe of them match it even closely. The porsche sorry is clinical will do whatever it was built to do but has no character like the TVR its dead.

Im not saying the others are bad, because they have quality behind them they won't break down, they still have high levels of performance but, for me TVR has that something extra a soul

[Waugh-terfall]

Still the 2.7 Cayman is utterly pointless, in Evo Car Of The Year 2006 it really struggled to loose the 1.6litre Suzuki Swift Sport...

[DesmoRob]

They already had one, 911. They build the lesser, to capitalize on the available market. Boxster's a good car as well, but it looked gay, so add a top, update a bit, WALLA! A damn good car.

I'll give a different example, when Lambo launch Gallardo with 20hp less than Murcielago, one might think they're insane from the marketing point of view, the way Italians solve problems? LP640.

That's the difference between a company that's passion driven, and one that's profit driven, regardless which produces a better product.

By the way, Posrches must be good, likewise BMW must be RWD.

Voila? Cars are becoming more and more powerful, why is it so worrisome that the underling models are catching up to their bigger siblings. It wont last long, those will just get more power in the next year or generation anyway, and so it will keep going. So what, if they've already built a good car that means they didn't have to make the Cayman a great one too? The marketing perspective is somewhat obsolete here anyway, because the 911 has its group of people that love it and will remain loyal to it. Its just that when you buy a 911, you don't just pay for the Porsche name, you also pay for the 911 name, and thats where the Cayman comes in, for those people that don't care but want to be "cool". And as far as being profit driven rather than passion driven, they didn't become so succesful for nothing. But you can't tell me that they didn't put any passion into their cars. At least they know how to properly build cars. How many things go wrong with the latest ferrari and lambo compared to porsche? Is that because they put so much passion into making their cars look cool that they forget about the details?

[The_Canuck]

Thats the problem! it was deliberately done so that 911 can still sell, nothing to do with engineering, performance.... the marketers did it! Just like the Audi R8, S6, S8 .... !

Cayman's realization isn't thru passion, it's thru motive.

It's not Porsches fault, its the market, if people keep wanting the 911 even if the Cayman is better, Porsches going to give them the 911.

[Ingolstadt]

When i make that statement, it doesn't mean the Cayman isn't a good product, or that no detail was put into the design and construction of it, its that the notion of creating something like the Cayman, is not thru the ultimate search of a good car, but rather something very good to slot just below perfect.

S4 and RS4 had the same engine, but are miles apart in performance, R8 using RS4's 4.2V8 whereas the original idea was a 5.2 V10 unit.... all these are done not give the consideration on suitability or reliability or functionality, but rather... marketing.

anyway, Cayman's a good car, no one will denby that, but it shouts :"I cant afford a 911 !! "

[IBrake4Rainbows]

As much as i'm a motoring enthusiast and do love to drive....I went for the Z4M coupe. It's just so.....right looking to me. the Sagaris is a little to brash and the porsche to ugly and ubiquitous.

[DesmoRob]

the porsche to ugly and ubiquitous.

That all depends where you live. Here in Okanagan valley, I haven't even seen a Cayman yet, but plenty of Z4 coupes. As for it being ugly, its funny how tastes differ. I have a hard time trying to find the Z4 coupe good looking (I don't find it ugly), but the Cayman is beautiful in my eyes. When I first saw the boxster, I always hoped they'd build a coupe, and imo they brought it together nicely.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

I think the rear aspect is handled beautifully, but the proportions, detail design and general shape of the car disappoint.

my favourite view of the Z4 is in profile - it shows the design to be perfectly balanced as a sports car. It's genius. i don't like some of the detailing but it's the best of the three there in my eyes.

[Ferrer]

my favourite view of the Z4 is in profile - it shows the design to be perfectly balanced as a sports car. It's genius. i don't like some of the detailing but it's the best of the three there in my eyes.

It's the classic Zagato theme, it even has the double bubbled roof.

[Waugh-terfall]

It's the classic Zagato theme, it even has the double bubbled roof.

Does the Viper Coupe have a double bubbled roof, or is that the Viper GTS?

[092326001]

TVR compares with F430 and 911 Turbo
Cayman S and Z4 M compare with eachother + possibly a TT

[Clivey]

TVR compares with F430 and 911 Turbo
Cayman S and Z4 M compare with eachother + possibly a TT

Therein lies the problem.

The TVR Sagaris does NOT compete with the F430 or 911 Turbo. Just because it's capable of hanging with them in performance terms doesn't mean it competes. The Sagaris is less than half the price of an F430, and just over half that of a 911 Turbo, whereas it's comparable with the other two cars in the poll. THAT'S WHY THEY'RE THERE!!!

The main problem with TVR's is that people insist on comparing them to exotica costing multiples of their prices.

[2ndclasscitizen]

S4 and RS4 had the same engine, but are miles apart in performance,

The S4 and RS4 don't have the same engine. The RS4 engine is rather extensively upgraded version of the 4.2 Audi V8. The extra performance comes from the extra power, the wider rear track, better suspension, stiffer chassis, manual box, rear biased quattro and so on.

R8 using RS4's 4.2V8 whereas the original idea was a 5.2 V10 unit.... all these are done not give the consideration on suitability or reliability or functionality, but rather... marketing.

Or perhaps they used the V8 as it has nearly as much power as the 5.2 V10, in a smaller light package? Also, you'll find the R8 has only ever been specified with a V8 since it's launch, with discussion of a V10 version only as a potential future upgrade. The Le Mans Concept had a TT V10, but it was designed as an all-out supercar to show of the chassis, rather than the 911-competitor-level sportscar it is.

These are sports cars, so please vote accordingly.

Therein lies the problem.

The TVR Sagaris does NOT compete with the F430 or 911 Turbo. Just because it's capable of hanging with them in performance terms doesn't mean it competes. The Sagaris is less than half the price of an F430, and just over half that of a 911 Turbo, whereas it's comparable with the other two cars in the poll. THAT'S WHY THEY'RE THERE!!!

The main problem with TVR's is that people insist on comparing them to exotica costing multiples of their prices.

As a sportscar the Sagaris competes with the 911 Turbo and the 430. Do you want us to discuss these sportscars as sportscars, or their relative pricing within the marketplace? Because as a sportscar in terms of outright speed round some bends or a track the Sagaris wipes the floor with the other in this poll, but is at a comparable level of performance with the Turbo, 430, and Gallardo that they could be fairly compared as sportscars.

Also, I fail to see how the Sagaris being a performance equal with those levels cars at a much smaller pricetag is a bad thing and something to get that worked up about.