Page 12 of 23 FirstFirst ... 2101112131422 ... LastLast
Results 166 to 180 of 332

Thread: Diesel cars in America

  1. #166
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    430
    Diesel trucks are so loud because all of the parts are very heavy and the high compression and power strokes makes these parts rumble. The turbos and thus waste gates are also very large and make lots of sound with the air rushing through and the wastegate opening when they get off the throttle.
    "Don't think your time on bad things
    Just float your little mind around"
    Jimi Hendrix

  2. #167
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Derby, England
    Posts
    2,192
    Quote Originally Posted by Wenkel View Post
    I don't know about the rest of you all, but I'm feeling pretty confortable with my Citroën C5 1.6 HDi (Diesel) 110hp FAP (french for anti - particles filter). it has an autonomy of 700~800km on a single tank and 5,6 l\100km. it's torque is available from as low as 900rpm. On 5th gear doing 140 km\h on the higway you can't even hear the engine.
    I have the same engine in the C4 (1,270 Kg) and it's only just powerful enough not to be a liability when overtaking or when full of passengers and luggage. - I can only imagine that in the 1,500 Kg C5 it'd feel like using a motorised pencil sharpener to mow my lawn.

    Furthermore, although there are larger and more powerful diesel engines that provide some great performance figures, the lack of throttle response and the turbo lag (even with multiple variable vane turbochargers) is always a drawback when compared to a N/A petrol. - Forced induction is necessary with a diesel engine - look-up the (lack of) performance of N/A diesels to see what I mean.

    I have one of each:

    - N/A petrol (E46 320i)
    - Turbo diesel (C4 1.6 HDi 110ps)

    I know they're not in the same class but even if the C4 were a 2.0HDi, the BMW is LEAGUES ahead as a driver's car. Diesels are for economy with all other things, such as NVH, responsiveness, performance, weight etc. coming secondary. In addition, the complicated and unreliable add-ons that are being added to try and make them acceptable only make them a false economy (research swirl flaps, injectors, turbo failures and particulate filter issues) for many people unless you've done the maths.

    Quote Originally Posted by 5150 View Post
    Why are diesels so loud any way? And do diesels get better gas mileage on the average, than those cars that use regular gasoline.
    They're loud because the combustion of the fuel isn't as precise or controllable as with petrol. Because diesel is effectively compressed until it combusts, the pressures involved are huge and the mass of engine components has to be higher as a result. It's really quite crude (excuse the pun) when compared to gasoline.

    Quote Originally Posted by clutch-monkey View Post
    any new ones are practically silent... and yes
    Not by a long shot. The only reason that some of the more expensive cars are quieter than older diesels is because they're packed to the gills with soundproofing etc.

    I recently drove a Citroen C6 2.7HDi - Carrying all that weight around, the fuel consumption never reached 30-mpg despite the drive including some steady motorway driving. Considering that diesel is more expensive than petrol here, it was the equivalent of a petrol doing ~25mpg with none of the benefits.

    Over the past week, my C4 (which takes a yawning 11.2 seconds to reach 60) hasn't bettered 32-mpg (urban driving, short journeys, cold weather). The engine and gearbox are rough as hell around town and take twice as long as a petrol to warm-up.

    A family member has the equivalent petrol C4 to mine. His is lighter, with less soundproofing, less weight hanging over the front axle and is much quieter and more refined and responsive than my car. The real slap in the face is that his fuel costs recently aren't much different to mine.

    I bought my car when my daily commute was 5x longer, now I'm only doing a 5.6 mile round trip it'll likely be a false economy in the long run. - The aforementioned injector problems are brought on by lots of cold, short journeys that don't give the engine chance to warm up. In addition, the added complexity of the engine will no doubt bring greater servicing, maintenance and repair costs later on. Bearing that in mind, I will be looking to swap it for something else when I can afford to.
    "This is hardcore." - Evo's John Barker on the TVR Tuscan S

  3. #168
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Rozenburg, Holland
    Posts
    27,329
    Quote Originally Posted by Clivey View Post
    I bought my car when my daily commute was 5x longer, now I'm only doing a 5.6 mile round trip it'll likely be a false economy in the long run. - The aforementioned injector problems are brought on by lots of cold, short journeys that don't give the engine chance to warm up. In addition, the added complexity of the engine will no doubt bring greater servicing, maintenance and repair costs later on. Bearing that in mind, I will be looking to swap it for something else when I can afford to.
    I am sure you can easily trade it for a bicycle, which is what would by far be the best means of transport for your commuting distance...
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  4. #169
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    10,227
    Yes, bicycling is tremendously enjoyable in the warm, dry, British weather.

    Especially in the winter.

  5. #170
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Derby, England
    Posts
    2,192
    Quote Originally Posted by henk4 View Post
    I am sure you can easily trade it for a bicycle, which is what would by far be the best means of transport for your commuting distance...
    I may do this in the summer.

    The only problems being that:

    - I would have to take a much longer route due to it being unsafe to cycle along the bypass that normally takes me to work (this being a problem due to the time taken in the morning).

    - That I carry my laptop as well as a few other bulky items.

    I've also recently witnessed a horrible collision between a cyclist (with baby on the back in a baby seat like the one pictured)...



    ...and a Nissan Primera. The woman driving the Primera pulled-out of a petrol station forecourt without looking and basically drove over the bike. Mercifully just the front (including the cyclist's legs / pelvis, breaking them) of the bike ended-up under the car, but it just illustrates that on two wheels you're relying on muppets not pancaking you.

    I like cycling, but one of the reasons I stopped doing it on the roads last time was the amount of near misses due to idiots in other vehicles - Buses being the worst.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kitdy View Post
    Yes, bicycling is tremendously enjoyable in the warm, dry, British weather.

    Especially in the winter.
    LOL!
    "This is hardcore." - Evo's John Barker on the TVR Tuscan S

  6. #171
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    10,227
    I find the biggest idiots when driving downtown are not in fact motorists, but those on bikes.

    Stop lights, indication, and staying in one's own lane all seem to be entirely negotiable laws for many bicyclists; especially couriers. Don't get me wrong, there are many moronic drivers (myself included, form time to time) but when you see how people bicycle in a major urban centre... Yikes. For some reason, it is legal for a bicyclist to be on a road without a bike lane and not being able to go the speed of traffic. Why is this? The issue in Toronto is there are no bike lanes. As I see it, either you have bike lanes, or no bikes on the road.

    If you have bikes on the road, bikers die; if on the sidewalk, pedestrians are injured.

  7. #172
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Rozenburg, Holland
    Posts
    27,329
    coming back to what Clivey said in post 167, there are also those who have a different experience. (Sample size N=1 of course)_

    last summer we replaced our 1600 cc 100 BHP Fiat Stilo petrol car with a Citroen C3 1.6 HDi with 90 BHP. Cars weigh about the same, but the C3 feels much more lively, does not need to rev to get a proper push and most of all mileage has improved from about 7.5 l/100 km for the Stilo to 4,4 l/100 for the C3. Granted the Stilo was ten years old, but suffered quite a few nuisances, many of which were related to the petrol engine.......
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  8. #173
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Derby, England
    Posts
    2,192
    Quote Originally Posted by Kitdy View Post
    I find the biggest idiots when driving downtown are not in fact motorists, but those on bikes.

    Stop lights, indication, and staying in one's own lane all seem to be entirely negotiable laws for many bicyclists; especially couriers. Don't get me wrong, there are many moronic drivers (myself included, form time to time) but when you see how people bicycle in a major urban centre... Yikes. For some reason, it is legal for a bicyclist to be on a road without a bike lane and not being able to go the speed of traffic. Why is this? The issue in Toronto is there are no bike lanes. As I see it, either you have bike lanes, or no bikes on the road.

    If you have bikes on the road, bikers die; if on the sidewalk, pedestrians are injured.
    Many would argue that bicycles have been around longer than motor vehicles and that they are just as entitled to use the roads as anyone else...however, many take that to mean that they can do as they please. In most cases, the cyclists don't help themselves. Oh, and if you think North American cities are bad, you should see Amsterdam (where the authorities stupidly give cyclists right of way). It's not funny to step out of a café onto the pavement (sidewalk) and have a bike crash into you. In '09 I staffed a student weekend in Amsterdam and had to knock one imbecile from their bike to stop them ploughing into a crowd of people at >20mph. They think nothing of injuring someone then just riding away.

    Quote Originally Posted by henk4 View Post
    coming back to what Clivey said in post 167, there are also those who have a different experience. (Sample size N=1 of course)_

    last summer we replaced our 1600 cc 100 BHP Fiat Stilo petrol car with a Citroen C3 1.6 HDi with 90 BHP. Cars weigh about the same, but the C3 feels much more lively, does not need to rev to get a proper push and most of all mileage has improved from about 7.5 l/100 km for the Stilo to 4,4 l/100 for the C3. Granted the Stilo was ten years old, but suffered quite a few nuisances, many of which were related to the petrol engine.......
    What kind of driving do you / your family do Pieter? It will make a massive difference. I saw much better economy from the C4 when I was driving longer distances. - It's just a complete pig until it's warmed-up, which takes bloody ages. It just doesn't suit my current lifestyle as when I drive longer distances now it's usually for leisure. However, I'm yet to take the 3'er on a proper motorway journey to see how it performs.

    The Stilo though...not exactly a shining beacon of automotive excellence, was it?
    "This is hardcore." - Evo's John Barker on the TVR Tuscan S

  9. #174
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Rozenburg, Holland
    Posts
    27,329
    Quote Originally Posted by Clivey View Post


    What kind of driving do you / your family do Pieter? It will make a massive difference. I saw much better economy from the C4 when I was driving longer distances. - It's just a complete pig until it's warmed-up, which takes bloody ages. It just doesn't suit my current lifestyle as when I drive longer distances now it's usually for leisure. However, I'm yet to take the 3'er on a proper motorway journey to see how it performs.

    The Stilo though...not exactly a shining beacon of automotive excellence, was it?
    just explained the C3 use in the fuel economy thread.
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  10. #175
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Californian by nature, living in Teggsas.
    Posts
    4,130
    I've been hearing rumblings that Mazda may bring a 2,2l diesel to the 'states as early as next year. We can only hope it's true!
    An it harm none, do as ye will

    Approximately 79% of statistics are made up.

  11. #176
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Derby, England
    Posts
    2,192
    Quote Originally Posted by jcp123 View Post
    I've been hearing rumblings that Mazda may bring a 2,2l diesel to the 'states as early as next year. We can only hope it's true!
    The grass is always greener...

    ...especially if you live in Europe where petrol is the equivalent of $8.10 per US gallon! - As previously mentioned, if we had US fuel prices, I'd rather buy an older, less fuel efficient car and have more fun driving it than spend big on some miserable soulless "ecobox" and lose half of it through depreciation.

    America is the land of the V8 - where people would rather shoot the President than accept high "gas" prices...and it's all the better for it. Whenever I visit the 'States, I'm impressed at the amount of older & classic cars that are well maintained and being driven. That doesn't happen so much in Europe - Over the last few years I've seen many nice cars go to the scrapyard for pathetic reasons (e.g. fuel economy - when the owner does circa 8k miles a year). These included cars like the Citroen XM, BMW E34 5-Series and Mk1 Mazda MX-5 - all in good condition. Why? Because our government was scrapping them in exchange for a £2k discount on new s**tboxes.

    I'd rather drive an old Town Car than a Hyundai i10. Especially at your prices...and I couldn't imagine doing a long journey in America in a small, rattly European diesel car. It would just ruin the whole thing - Imagine driving Route 66 to the soundtrack of a tugboat. - I'll take your 'Stang instead, thanks!

    Don't get me wrong: Diesels have their place (if you're doing high mileage, towing etc. - Seeing what a Silverado Duramax 3500HD can do is amazing) but for many they make little sense. I think there is a "forbidden fruit" element to some Americans wanting diesels (you want them because you don't have them etc. and in some ways, it's becoming a fashion statement to drive a diesel. - Like the whole Prius thing, but for non-Californians.
    "This is hardcore." - Evo's John Barker on the TVR Tuscan S

  12. #177
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Californian by nature, living in Teggsas.
    Posts
    4,130
    I genuinely like how diesels drive...torquey and low-revving (much like my Mustang), with better fuel economy as a side bonus.
    An it harm none, do as ye will

    Approximately 79% of statistics are made up.

  13. #178
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Rozenburg, Holland
    Posts
    27,329
    Quote Originally Posted by jcp123 View Post
    I genuinely like how diesels drive...torquey and low-revving (much like my Mustang), with better fuel economy as a side bonus.
    right you are, my 2.2 HDi produces about 460 nm of torque...which becomes available at about 1500 revs....
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  14. #179
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Derby, England
    Posts
    2,192
    Quote Originally Posted by jcp123 View Post
    I genuinely like how diesels drive...torquey and low-revving (much like my Mustang), with better fuel economy as a side bonus.
    Oh, I like the lump of torque in the middle of the rev range...what I don't like is the total absence of anything right at the bottom and at the top.

    Quote Originally Posted by henk4 View Post
    right you are, my 2.2 HDi produces about 460 nm of torque...which becomes available at about 1500 revs....
    Do you have a power & torque graph for that engine? I'd hoped that twin turbochargers could be used to eliminate turbo lag and the "dead" zone from idle...however having driven a 123d, even that isn't completely successful and still doesn't feel as responsive as a petrol.
    "This is hardcore." - Evo's John Barker on the TVR Tuscan S

  15. #180
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Perth, Australia
    Posts
    6,534
    An 8 speed gearbox will also assist with that.
    Life's too short to drive bad cars.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 2 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. UK police replacing the Imprezas with Lexus IS-F cruisers
    By 4wheelsonline in forum General Automotive
    Replies: 112
    Last Post: 10-14-2009, 07:25 AM
  2. if americans like torque, why not buy diesel engined cars?
    By teatako in forum General Automotive
    Replies: 157
    Last Post: 01-06-2007, 01:24 PM
  3. The fastest street cars in america
    By rev440 in forum Multimedia
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 11-27-2006, 07:39 PM
  4. Pixar Cars
    By 90ft in forum Multimedia
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 06-08-2006, 08:03 AM
  5. RWD diesel powered cars
    By QBridge in forum Car comparison
    Replies: 41
    Last Post: 11-07-2005, 01:17 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •