Diesel in the USA

[Equinox]

^ I'd put money first for what motivates people, then pleasure.

Money is what dictates pretty much everything. People say we live in an information age, computer age etc.. But I think more then anything we are a money age. It's all about the money these days... If you have it, your set. If you don't, your screwed.

After all... Pleasure doesn't pay the bills.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

First you get the money.

Then you buy the pleasure.

[Matra et Alpine]

hmmmm "money can't buy you love" !!

If we're going to quote homilies

However, it buys a helluva lot of lust and sex , so I'm up for it !!!!!!!!

Seriously, the last 50 years has seen the "consumer society" take over from the social, real people, real lives one. So some know no other way ... and to be frank folks like Beck make out that social conscience is a bad thing, so no surprise that the benefits of "caring" are lost to so many

Ah well. DAMN, I'm getting old !!!!!

Ferrer, you kind of missed the point about the price.
YES, it makes a difference when you go to fill up, BUT in EUROPE 80% of that cost is taxes YOU ARE PAYING to your government to do "other things".
Taxes that large businesses are able to offset and thus get "reduced" fuel costs.

I'm no longer convinced either that diesels are worth it as the build cost is higher adn the difference in fuel consumption for MOST of the driving public jsut isn't there anymore -- granted folsk like Wouter/Pieter driving French-oil-burners all over Europe racking up the kms can start to offset it, but with newer cars it's jsut not there any more acertainly not at the prices in the UK

[IBrake4Rainbows]

In Australia, thanks to Taxes etc, Diesel is actually mor expensive than Petrol to purchase.

And yeah, you are sounding like a crotchety old man there, Matra. But social awareness is cool now.

Like, save the polar bears of Sri Lanka and stuff, you know?

[henk4]

I have made this point before, and having just done 335 km of effortless driving in Italy, I think it is worth repeating. Modern diesel cars so much correspond to the American way of driving, with oodles of torque at low revs, and no nervous revving to get some power at the wheels, that you can only wonder why it is not popular over there, apart from the general well known prejudices, (that are sometimes repeated here by some of our European forum members).

[Ferrer]

Ferrer, you kind of missed the point about the price.
YES, it makes a difference when you go to fill up, BUT in EUROPE 80% of that cost is taxes YOU ARE PAYING to your government to do "other things".
Taxes that large businesses are able to offset and thus get "reduced" fuel costs.

I'm not discussing that.

My point was that, regardless from where the high prices come and on what are they used, the prices do affect people's choice of powertrain

I'm no longer convinced either that diesels are worth it as the build cost is higher adn the difference in fuel consumption for MOST of the driving public jsut isn't there anymore -- granted folsk like Wouter/Pieter driving French-oil-burners all over Europe racking up the kms can start to offset it, but with newer cars it's jsut not there any more acertainly not at the prices in the UK

This. It's often I hear people saying they got a diesel because it "uses less fuel", not caring about the price difference with an equivalent petrol, the running costs, or the fact that they often do 10,000km a year or less.

I have made this point before, and having just done 335 km of effortless driving in Italy, I think it is worth repeating. Modern diesel cars so much correspond to the American way of driving, with oodles of torque at low revs, and no nervous revving to get some power at the wheels, that you can only wonder why it is not popular over there, apart from the general well known prejudices, (that are sometimes repeated here by some of our European forum members).

What about your petrol prejudices?

[culver]

I think we get so few options that many don't consider them. For what ever reason very few manufactures feel they are a viable product here. My brother has a new VW Jetta diesel. In comparison to my father's 2.0T Passat I have to say the diesel isn't there yet. It's damn close and the mileage sure is good. I don't know what the price difference would be. However, overall I liked the gasser better. If it were my money I would likely buy the gas model over the diesel though if the prices were similar I would sure consider the diesel.

As I've said in the past, the problem with diesel in the US is aside from the good mileage they offer basically nothing more than we get with a gasoline car. They are almost or just as refined. They are not much more expensive. They are almost as quick. They almost don't smell. They are almost as low maintenance. Diesel prices right now are almost as cheap as gasoline. Diesel's certainly get better mileage (maybe 50% better) but that is the end of the ways diesel is really superior.

One more point, I wouldn't be surprised if the manufactures are a bit wary of some new surprise regulation throwing a wrench in the works. There was a lot of talk recently about many new diesels hitting the US market. However, a new round of emissions proposals seems to have put that on hold. It wouldn't surprise me if the manfactures are simply afraid to invest in US diesels only to have some new emissions reg that raises the price and kills their sales. Since the us diesel passenger car market is almost nil it's not like regulators are sensitive to the voices of diesel car buyers.

[henk4]

One more point, I wouldn't be surprised if the manufactures are a bit wary of some new surprise regulation throwing a wrench in the works. There was a lot of talk recently about many new diesels hitting the US market. However, a new round of emissions proposals seems to have put that on hold. It wouldn't surprise me if the manfactures are simply afraid to invest in US diesels only to have some new emissions reg that raises the price and kills their sales. Since the us diesel passenger car market is almost nil it's not like regulators are sensitive to the voices of diesel car buyers.

It could not be the case that US law makers would invent new regulations that would prevent a further erosion of sales of US made products, could it?

[Matra et Alpine]

^^^^ hmm like the imposition of catalytic convertors on the rest of the world despite "lean burn" developments in Europe surpassing the "standards" ????
Time for us to create "UCP old cynical farts" club Pieter

[Dino Scuderia]

"UCP old cynical farts" club

Where do I sign?

[henk4]

Where do I sign?

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum...tml#post935073

here...

[culver]

It could not be the case that US law makers would invent new regulations that would prevent a further erosion of sales of US made products, could it?

Not likely. Much of the emissions standards originate in California. As a state they could give less than two ****s about the US car makers. They are more likely to react if you were to cut their flow of Priuses.

[culver]

^^^^ hmm like the imposition of catalytic convertors on the rest of the world despite "lean burn" developments in Europe surpassing the "standards" ????
Time for us to create "UCP old cynical farts" club Pieter

Cats weren't initially mandated and Honda sold cars without them. Don't confuse US bueracracy with US conspiracy. Chysler complained that their 2 stroke technology from the 1990s was shot down because the EPA wouldn't let them skip certain expected emissions technologies that were unnessisary on their engine. I'm sure Europe and other places have similar beuricratic stories.

[Commodore GS/E]

This may be a stupid question (i think everybody knows it, apart from me ), but i would like to know why diesels are that unloved in the US. From what i heard they are mainly thought as engines for trucks, but not for normal cars (i could possibly be wrong). Does anybody know..?

[Ferrer]

This was the problem.



Also with their fuel prices there's no need for them either.