Israel vs. Lebanon THE POLL Edition

[Gtek-i]

"We want Clinton! We want Clinton!"

[Coventrysucks]

From the Daily Telegraph
18/7/06:

Lebanon
Dead - 41 people in Lebanon on the sixth day of bambardment, and more than 200 in the past six days, including 195 civilians and 12 Lebenese soldiers. Hezbollah has said that three of its fighters have been killed since the start of hostilities.

Infrastructure - One airport, three ports, fuel depots, bridges and roads, including the main highway from Beirut to Damascus.
Power plants, a civil defense building in Tyre and a dairy in the Bekaa valley have been destroyed. Lebenese prime minister Fouad Siniora said the attacks had caused "billions of dollars of damage".

Military Targets - Military base in Tripoli

Towns Hit - Baalbek, Beirut, Tyre, Tripoli, Abdeh, Rmeileh and villages across southern Lebanon.

Israel
Dead - Total death toll is believed to be 24, with casualties split evenly between soliders and civilians.

Infrastructure - Haifa railway station hit by rocket, Haifa port closed because of threat of attack.

Military targets - Tanks, missile ship.

Towns hit - Haifa, Nahariya, Safed ,Tiberias, Afula and two dozen smaller towns and villages across northern Israel which are home to about one million Israelis. Schools, offices and summer camps closed and business groups estimate the economic loss of shutdowns at almost £5.5 million a day.

[Dino Scuderia]

Indeed they are, so why fire at the hostages?

Good military practices indicate the point is to remove the target, not the hostage.

Again it's the civilians, those who have kept Lebanon reasonably peaceful for nearly 10 years, who end up copping the worst of this experience. I feel for the Israeli civilians who have been attacked as well, they don't deserve whats happened to them.

The spokesmen for both sides said yesterday that neither would stop this conflict until hostages are released.

War is not suppose to be proportionate, you try to do more damage than the other side.

Israel is going to keep turning up the heat until they win, and a win is the only way to get the peace back....at least until the next attack. I don't think this region will ever be totally at peace, there's just periods of rebuilding in between conflicts. They will keep going until they feel Hezbollah is driven out or at least completely weakened, sad for Lebanon but it was responsible for letting Hezbollah fester within it's borders and elect Hezbollah representatives into it's goverment.

[Clique]

Isreli response to the kidnapping incident is totally out of proportion and unwarranted. Kidnapping as we all know has become so common, especially between nations in conflict. The best course of action is negotiation but not blind destruction of property and killing of innocent civilians.

[Dino Scuderia]

Hezbollah shouldn't have captured the soldiers, you reep what you sew.

Kidnapping is common so everyone should just accept it and not show that there will be concequences then?

You can't negotiate with Hezbollah, they are where they are for one reason, to kill jews.

[The_Canuck]

Canada is sending 6 ships to evacuate Canadians from Lebenon, apparently 6 Canadians have already been killed...

[Jack_Bauer]

Same goes for UK citizens. In the last hour or so our Navy has begun to evacuate those UK citizens who want out from Beirut Port. Still a good few thousand more British nationals left in the country so for some there will be a long and anxious wait before they can get to safety.

[Coventrysucks]

Hezbollah shouldn't have captured the soldiers, you reep what you sew.

The Kidnapping of three soldiers justifies the death of 195+ Lebanese civilians?

That isn't retaliation against Hezbollah, that is boarderline genocide.

I find it puzzling that a bunch of terrorists can get a 50% "strike-rate" against their enemy - the Israeli army, yet a professional army can only get a 1.5% "strike-rate" against its army - Hezbollah.

If Hezbollah was only set up to get Israeli invaders out of southern Lebanon in the first place, I guess Israel is reaping what it sowed.

Too much reaping and sowing, not enough political intervention.

[Dino Scuderia]

Well, you have to take into account where and how Hezbollah sets up it's operations which is amongst civilians...and where did Hezbollah send their first missile? Right into the city of Haifa, not a military target....it's not my fault they didn't kill more 'innocent civilians' and it's not like they didn't try so find a new argument for your unsupported math formulas.

They purposely operate from civilian areas for people like you, who can't see the forrest for the trees, so you can whine, 'but they're killing innocent civilians' and get the world on their side, don't fall for it. Radical Hezbollah is blood thirsty and there wouldn't be a single Israeli alive if they had their way.

[Coventrysucks]

Lets just support Israel all the way - clearly the only option of peace (for Israel at least) is total irradication of every single Arab on the planet...

Yee-Haw! Send in the Nukes; that'll teach those dirty Lebanese bastards for having democratic elections!

BTW

"Unsupported" formulas?

I think that the idea of the "percentage" is quite widely supported by a majority of the global scientific community.

As for the figures involved; why would the Daily Telegraph provide heavily skewed figures one way or the other?

12/24 x 100 = 50%
3/200 x 100 = 1.5%

They purposely operate from civilian areas for people like you, who can't see the forrest for the trees, so you can whine, 'but they're killing innocent civilians' and get the world on their side, don't fall for it. Radical Hezbollah is blood thirsty and there wouldn't be a single Israeli alive if they had their way.

Err... yes complaining about the deaths of innocent civilians really takes me off the moral high ground doesn't it...



I'm not supporting Hezbollah, but that doesn't mean that I have to support Israel either.

Aside from that - how can the USA, Britain and the rest of the "coalition" forces in Iraq & Afghanistan manage to operate against militants who operate in a similar way - from amongst the general population - but not manage to kill as many innocent people?

I think it is probably a case of the Israeli army not trying that hard to miss innocent civilians.

You are seeing the problem as Black/White.

It is person A's fault - they are the only ones responsible
Only one side can be right
etc.

It isn't that simple, you can't just dump all of the blame on either side, and there needs to be a clear understanding of why both sides are behaving as they are.

Don't just dismiss Hezbollah as a bunch of terrorists with a grudge - why do they have a grudge? How can that grudge be eliminated?

Obviously their mission is not the complete extermination of the Jews, otherwise why have they been dormant since 2000, when Israel pulled out of southern Lebanon. Why are they doing this now? What is causing it?

On the other hand - why has Israel started an all-out war almost, for the sake of two kidnapped soldiers?
Why is negotiating with the Lebanese government out of the question?

Also, why are you insulting me just because I oppose your views?

[Dino Scuderia]

Well, you just keep on defending the indefensible.

Lets just support Israel all the way - clearly the only option of peace (for Israel at least) is total irradication of every single Arab on the planet...

Yee-Haw! Send in the Nukes; that'll teach those dirty Lebanese bastards for having democratic elections!

BTW

"Unsupported" formulas?

I think that the idea of the "percentage" is quite widely supported by a majority of the global scientific community.

As for the figures involved; why would the Daily Telegraph provide heavily skewed figures one way or the other?

12/24 x 100 = 50%
3/200 x 100 = 1.5%

I'm not defending anything, you posed a question, 'The Kidnapping of three soldiers justifies the death of 195+ Lebanese civilians?'

I was merely explaining the reason for the number civilian deaths because like you the Telegraph has a political slant that drives it's deductions. Their fuzzy math didn't likely include the additional information I supplied as to why civilians were killed.

So it's up to me to clue you in since you are without one.

[Coventrysucks]

your arguments are as lame as the above.

That's a ridiculous option, and if you can't see that it's your problem.

You can bash America all you want to, just do it with a coherent argument...to often your distaste for America clouds your thinking.

Keep on tap dancing, it's a good show.

Wthe double standard canard again.

find a new argument for your unsupported math formulas.

They purposely operate from civilian areas for people like you, who can't see the forrest for the trees, so you can whine,

So it's up to me to clue you in since you are without one.

The ammount of insults you include in your posts doesn't make them any more "true"/"right"/ whatever.

Just grow up a bit eh?

There is a forum rule about personal attacks...

[Dino Scuderia]

Lets just support Israel all the way - clearly the only option of peace (for Israel at least) is total irradication of every single Arab on the planet...

Yee-Haw! Send in the Nukes; that'll teach those dirty Lebanese bastards for having democratic elections!

BTW

"Unsupported" formulas?

I think that the idea of the "percentage" is quite widely supported by a majority of the global scientific community.

As for the figures involved; why would the Daily Telegraph provide heavily skewed figures one way or the other?

12/24 x 100 = 50%
3/200 x 100 = 1.5%



Err... yes complaining about the deaths of innocent civilians really takes me off the moral high ground doesn't it...



I'm not supporting Hezbollah, but that doesn't mean that I have to support Israel either.

Aside from that - how can the USA, Britain and the rest of the "coalition" forces in Iraq & Afghanistan manage to operate against militants who operate in a similar way - from amongst the general population - but not manage to kill as many innocent people?

I think it is probably a case of the Israeli army not trying that hard to miss innocent civilians.

You are seeing the problem as Black/White.

It is person A's fault - they are the only ones responsible
Only one side can be right
etc.

It isn't that simple, you can't just dump all of the blame on either side, and there needs to be a clear understanding of why both sides are behaving as they are.

Don't just dismiss Hezbollah as a bunch of terrorists with a grudge - why do they have a grudge? How can that grudge be eliminated?

Obviously their mission is not the complete extermination of the Jews, otherwise why have they been dormant since 2000, when Israel pulled out of southern Lebanon. Why are they doing this now? What is causing it?

On the other hand - why has Israel started an all-out war almost, for the sake of two kidnapped soldiers?
Why is negotiating with the Lebanese government out of the question?

Also, why are you insulting me just because I oppose your views?

You've got to be kidding me, there's over 30,000 dead civilians in Iraq so tell me how like operations to that of Hezbollah were faught against there with less civilian loss. It didn't happen.

What is causing it? LOL! These people are one cartoon of Mohammed away from firing nukes if they had them. They(radical Islam) don't need a reason it's their goal in life...but I think it's coincidental to Iran being scrutinized for it's nuclear plans...a diversion maybe.

Israel no doubt knew this was going to happen at any time, it's basically a replay of them driving the Palestinian terrorists out of Lebanon in 1982. It was Hezbollah that bombed the American Embassy in Beirut and the U.S. Marine headquarters at Beirut airport and also hijacked TWA Flight 847. They didn't have a stockpile of missiles for nothing.

Of course Israel is going to take this opportunity to drive Hezbollah out of Lebanon, stay tuned for ground troops.

[Coventrysucks]

Well; the definative solution to the problem presented there...

[Clique]

Israel have claimed that Hezbollah kidnapped the soldiers just to divert the world's attention away from Iran's 'WMD'..
So they are saying that every Islamic country is part of one 'clique' that will team up on Israel...
Dude thats the biggest peice of BS since Ferrari Prinze claimed he had an Enzo...