View Poll Results: What is the most

Voters
32. You may not vote on this poll
  • Manual (H-pattern or similar)

    22 68.75%
  • Full Automatic Stick (P-D-N-R-1-2 or similar)

    3 9.38%
  • Sequential Stick (P-D-N-R)/(M+ M-) (so-called Manumatic)

    3 9.38%
  • Sequential Paddle-Shifter ((M+ M-) w/ full auto option)

    1 3.13%
  • Direct Shift Gearbox (DSG) (not enough space to describe here)

    2 6.25%
  • Other (specify in comments)

    1 3.13%
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 37

Thread: [POLL] Manual or Automatic?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    842

    [POLL] Manual or Automatic?

    I know this has been done ages ago, but I want to take the pulse of the UCP again:

    I am more interested in why you choose your answer: hassle-free driving? more car control? engine-braking? fuel economy? jackrabbit-starts? etc. Is it a matter of personal choice or is there really technically one superior choice?

    If you had to pick one and one only, for the rest of your life, for zipping down to the grocery store, the thousand kilometer journey, for racing around the track, for crawling in traffic, etc.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Barcelona
    Posts
    33,489
    As expected, manual for me.

    Because changing gear is an intrinsecal part of the driving experience for me. And I don't mind having a clutch in traffic, or even in situations were you just want to waft home. The other 99% of the time more than compensates for that. I also do not care about shift-launch-ferocity-flappy-paddle-lighitning-changes-control.

    Having tried pretty much every single auto gearbox (except for single clutch automated gearboxes) none delivers an experience like a manual can.

    By the way, there's no poll...
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
    Visca Catalunya!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    West Coast of Florida
    Posts
    198
    An automatic for everyday driving and a manual for track racing.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    5,456
    I drive a DSG car, and although I wished I had ordered a manual, I think ultimately the technology has merit, if not the current execution may leave something to be desired....

    They may not have the full involvement of the manual, but they can deliver most of the enjoyment with the least compromise that I think when it is eventually matured enough that it'll be the standard for conventional engined cars.
    University of Toronto Formula SAE Alumni 2003-2007
    Formula Student Championship 2003, 2005, 2006
    www.fsae.utoronto.ca

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Rozenburg, Holland
    Posts
    27,329
    I grew up with a stick and I will probably stay with it. Drove a Golf GTI once with DSG and just flooring it gives you the immediate performance, but that is the only difference with a slush box, which upon throttle movement and subsequent highers revs, alsways seems to wake and think: "Hey I have to convert these higher revs into more speed, but yeah, let's not be in a hurry"
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Barcelona
    Posts
    33,489
    Quote Originally Posted by henk4 View Post
    I grew up with a stick and I will probably stay with it. Drove a Golf GTI once with DSG and just flooring it gives you the immediate performance, but that is the only difference with a slush box, which upon throttle movement and subsequent highers revs, alsways seems to wake and think: "Hey I have to convert these higher revs into more speed, but yeah, let's not be in a hurry"
    I thought the dual clutch was smoother and faster than conventional torque converter auto, but not enough to warrant the extra complexity, probably.
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
    Visca Catalunya!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    385
    Ill go a 3 speed on the tree just to be different.
    I want to die in my sleep like my Grandma, not screaming like the other 3 people in her car.

    There are 10 types of people in this world. People who understand binary and people who don't.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    5,456
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    I thought the dual clutch was smoother and faster than conventional torque converter auto, but not enough to warrant the extra complexity, probably.
    I think compare to a traditional auto, the DSG is not that much more complex, the additional benefit is that a DSG tranny's layout is not that drastically different to a traditional manual, which means for manufacturing much of the fixture and production lines can be shared. Hence the whole idea of Porsche making their next gen 7 speed manual that shares much of the components with the PDK.
    University of Toronto Formula SAE Alumni 2003-2007
    Formula Student Championship 2003, 2005, 2006
    www.fsae.utoronto.ca

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    6,153
    I like manuals better for “driving” but my cars re autos. My Monaro because it was second hand, in too good condition to pass up and I also use it as my rep-mobile. Despite that I still would prefer it t be manual given a choice. My Landcruiser is auto and after having a couple of manual 4x4s I have to say in all but extreme conditions autos rule. Especially on the sand and beach.
    "A string is approximately nine long."
    Egg Nogg 02-04-2005, 05:07 AM

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Rozenburg, Holland
    Posts
    27,329
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    I thought the dual clutch was smoother and faster than conventional torque converter auto, but not enough to warrant the extra complexity, probably.
    yes it is, what I described were the reactions of the normal slush box.
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    England, somerset
    Posts
    915
    Manual for me, although there not as fun Direct Shift Gearboxes are very clever.
    Speed has never killed anyone. Suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you."
    — Jeremy Clarkson

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    East Coast of the United States
    Posts
    11,994
    Is it bad that I prefer manual but haven't learned yet?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    842
    Quote Originally Posted by NSXType-R View Post
    Is it bad that I prefer manual but haven't learned yet?
    Isn't that like having a favorite movie you haven't seen yet?

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    1,508
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    I thought the dual clutch was smoother and faster than conventional torque converter auto, but not enough to warrant the extra complexity, probably.
    I'm not sure that it was ever smoother than a good traditional auto. The TC is a great system for smoothly transmitting power as the fluid absorbs transient vibrations. Also when done right a traditional auto will smoothly slip it's bands and clutches to change gears. The best a DSG can do is slip it's clutches.

    I admit I've never driven a DSG so I can't say for certain but most of what I've read says they are more fuel efficient (and more mechanically efficient) but if you wanted the best of a traditional auto they aren't as good. Their advantages seems to be that they do a better job of impersonating a manual.

    I must admit I have wondered if some of their sporting advantages are really advantages or simply that most people are coming out of older 4 speed autos into DSG boxes and finding much to like about the DSG compared to the older autos. I'm not as certain about their advantages when compared to a good 6+ speed traditional auto with either a lock of TC or the dry clutch MB showed with one of their autos.

    I do agree that it's likely that future manuals will be designed such that the gearbox "platform" can be converted from auto to manual versions more readily. I love this because it might reverse the trend towards no manuals. Right now the designs of the traditional auto and a DSG are unrelated and basically separate projects. Since, in the US, the manual take rate is very low more and more the manual is getting dumped. If the two boxes were largely related and thus the engineering differences were minimal that would be fine with me.

    Two more random thoughts.
    1. Manuals might also be going away in the US because CAFE rules are getting tighter. In general if we have basically the same ratios a manual should match the economy of an auto. However, the CAFE rules are strick about when you can shift gears. Even if the engine could shift early or skip shift (say 1st to 3rd or 2nd to 4th) the rules don't allow it. This is why GM added the skip shift feature to the Corvette. The original test said shifts happened at 15, 25 and 40 mph (not sure if that's still current). It was dumb to keep the Corvette's monster V8 in 3rd at 40 mph given that 3rd works great at 15mph (I typically shifted from 1st to 3rd at around 10mph). GM's skip shift feature allowed the company to claim 4th gear as a 2nd gear for the test. Anyway, while the Corvette is the most extreme example this applies to basically all cars. Most manual cars can be shifted earlier than the test allows thanks to the fact that most now have 5 at minimum and often 6 gears vs the 3-4 that was common when the test came out. Automatics can work around this because the EPA doesn't say when the computer can and can't shift. Net result the computer can short shift or even skip shift (I think Ford had a 5spd auto that would basically act like a 4 speed with a choice of 3rd gears for light or hard acceleration). Yet another place were CAFE rules screw the market.

    2. I took a quick look at the new Focus today. At some point in the not too distant future I want to get a new (or newer) car. I want nicer than econobox interior and features, hatch back (or if I have to a more traditional wagon layout) and manual transmission. Well the Focus ALMOST fits the bill. The top end cars are nice. They get decent mileage and reportedly have decent handling. However, you can't get a manual in the top end cars. I don't want the auto even if it is a DSG. The cars with manual aren't as nice and feel to econobox to me. Net result I may have to skip the Focus unless the RS makes it state side. Too bad we can't get a Fusion hatch in the US (or even better a Mondeo hatch).

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Rozenburg, Holland
    Posts
    27,329
    CAFE test....
    Do you actually mean that you are not allowed to shift gears in a manual in a different way than the CAFE test prescribes? Is it not enough if the manaul gearbox achieves the same test results as the autobox under laboratory conditions?
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Volvo S60/V60 (2nd gen) 2010-2018
    By Ferrer in forum Matt's Hi-Res Hide-Out
    Replies: 60
    Last Post: 01-09-2015, 12:01 PM
  2. Convert MKIV Supra automatic to manual
    By QBridge in forum General Automotive
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 06-28-2006, 04:40 PM
  3. Automatic or Manual
    By sleekeywoowoo in forum Miscellaneous
    Replies: 43
    Last Post: 09-10-2005, 11:12 PM
  4. V6 joins Courier range
    By fpv_gtho in forum General Automotive
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 01-24-2005, 02:17 AM
  5. Automatic or Manual?
    By Joey7489 in forum General Automotive
    Replies: 45
    Last Post: 02-21-2004, 06:22 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •