Are we just a bunch of idiots?

[Ferrer]

For the, say, $100k range, I'd get an Escalade if I just had to have a luxo SUV - watered down as it is, it's has a surprisingly luxurious feel, plus money left over for for a few watches. Omega Speedmaster and Jaeger Reverso anyone? Otherwise, I'd really much rather have a Panamera or A8.

Something about Range Rovers really turns me off. Can't put my finger on it, but I think it's their very popularity. I'm a contrarian and can't even stand to watch a blockbuster movie, let alone drop that kind of cash on the pop choice for luxury buyers.

The point is to not have a SUV luxo barge.

It's curious that Range Rovers sell but Jags don't... It should be the other way round.

[jcp123]

Can't say I disagree. It's all relative. For me, SUV's are supposed to be utilitarian, stripped down, tough, ready to hit the mud and ford some streams. They ride rough, aren't fast, and don't make any pretenses on having creature comforts or good fuel economy. The Escalade was honestly a well put-together package though, haven't met one I like better in the premium SUV segment. I wish they could translate the work they did on the Escalade down into their other vehicles. Some, like the CTS, felt lacking.

[Ferrer]

But if you just want a go anywhere vehicle, with no room for luxury, toys, comfort, etc. what's the point of a Cadillac? What you've just described is an off roader - and there are plenty of options out there (Mitsubishi Monteros, Toyota Land Cruisers, Jeep Wranglers or Suzuki Jimnys).

An SUV is something completely different, just image not actual ability.

[jcp123]

I probably worded that without enough clarity. I like the Escalade as a luxury package only. That's where they did some fantastic work.

Its SUV cred, though, is admittedly pretty limited and hits only a few of the points that I mentioned above that an SUV should have.

[Ferrer]

But then why not have a luxury saloon instead?

[jcp123]

But then why not have a luxury saloon instead?

Beats me. IF I were to have a luxury SUV, the Escalade is it.

But, I would also much rather have a luxury CAR, in my case the A8 (eve better if they made an A8 Avant) or Panamera as mentioned.

[faksta]

But then why not have a luxury saloon instead?

You should really come to Moscow in winter to stop asking such questions

[Ferrer]

You should really come to Moscow in winter to stop asking such questions

Four wheel drive saloon?

[faksta]

Not quite, ride height matters also, especially given that many people have some property outside the city. An SUV is the most convenient car for them.

[Matra et Alpine]

The Avantime was an odd one as Matra's swan-song.
The design was typical of Matra and the ground-breaking Espace before BUT Renault promoted the Vel Satis heavily in the dealership putting the nails in the efforts of Matra to be different and shake off the destruction of the Espace product under Renault leadership
Dealers I spoke to definitely felt that if Renault had not pitched the top of the Vel Satis straight at the Avantime and with heavy discounts then the Avantime would have been the winner !!

[jcp123]

Not quite, ride height matters also, especially given that many people have some property outside the city. An SUV is the most convenient car for them.

Given the need for dash cams in Russia, I would say an SUV is proably a good choice there in any season.

[pimento]

The Avantime was an odd one as Matra's swan-song.
The design was typical of Matra and the ground-breaking Espace before BUT Renault promoted the Vel Satis heavily in the dealership putting the nails in the efforts of Matra to be different and shake off the destruction of the Espace product under Renault leadership
Dealers I spoke to definitely felt that if Renault had not pitched the top of the Vel Satis straight at the Avantime and with heavy discounts then the Avantime would have been the winner !!

I really like the Avantime. If they had ever sold them here I'd be looking for a second hand one to come up.

[NSXType-R]

Four wheel drive saloon?

A bit late to the conversation but a Subaru Legacy Outback wagon would do nicely.

Personally I just like the wagon variant though.

[NSXType-R]

Also think about cars like the Hyndai Equus, et. al. They aren't bad cars, perhaps a tad rough around the edges but still clearly meant to be a premium alternative at a significant discount. Sales are practically nonexistent as almost nobody wants to spend that much to drive a Hyundai, even if it is a pretty fair value..

Hyundai is rough around the edges. At the NY Auto Show I sat in a few. The car felt 9/10s finished- the switches, plastic and minor stuff aren't finished well. Example- the clicky buttons don't sound good, the plastic covers for arm rests don't move smoothly and loudly and have molded plastic edges are not all that smooth.

For the undiscerning folk, they would never notice such minor things. I do.

But as a car to get to places only, it's fine.

[jcp123]

The car felt 9/10s finished- the switches, plastic and minor stuff aren't finished well.

That's why it's 9/10ths the price. It sure feels like a gussied up Hyundai - but I feel for what you get it's priced pretty fairly.