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  #16  
Old 01-10-2009, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Clivey View Post
This is no more rice than an Audi RS6 or BMW M5...what are you on about?

It looks very tasteful IMO...come to Daddy!
I can see it being a bit overly-aggressive for a Jag - the hood vents are a bit too protrusive maybe is what I see - the rear end is great (I don't like the headlights on the XF and headlights are critical to me) though it makes me think Aston.

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Originally Posted by Clivey View Post
There are no manual XFs, period. It would massively change the character of the car, and I'm not sure if that's what Jaguar want. Besides: Apart from us "hardcore" enthusiasts, who's going to buy manual XFs? <2% of customers?
Indeed but it'd be nice, wouldn't it? Ferrer (I think) and I speak not in this case in business sense but enthusiasts perspecitve. I wonder if there will be a semi-auto - I think that would suffice on an XFR.

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Originally Posted by Clivey View Post
I think he just means the principle of limiting the top speed.
Well I can't argue with that I suppose. I think it'd be more logical to limit top speed if at all to a more "reasonable" speed such as 150 km/h - a speed at which there isn't really a justifiable reason to travel faster on public roads in my eyes. I think even this speed is excessive and should preferably not be driven at all but if so on empty highways in straight lines.

EDIT: Nice to see you around here Clivey - post interesting as usual. Been a while though eh man?
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  #17  
Old 01-10-2009, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clivey View Post
This is no more rice than an Audi RS6 or BMW M5...what are you on about?
It's more normal coming from the Germans, Jags are supposed to be classy.
I'm not being inconsistent, I tend not to like supersedans (German especially).
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  #18  
Old 01-10-2009, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitdy View Post
Well I can't argue with that I suppose. I think it'd be more logical to limit top speed if at all to a more "reasonable" speed such as 150 km/h - a speed at which there isn't really a justifiable reason to travel faster on public roads in my eyes. I think even this speed is excessive and should preferably not be driven at all but if so on empty highways in straight lines.
I guess they choose to limit the cars to 155 mph for aero issues, since after that speed aerodynamic begins to be quite critical, so it's a sort of safe bet.
for the record, speed limit in Italy is 130 km/h (about 81 mph), but the average speed on the third lane is actually 140 km/h
limit the cars to 150 km/h and I can already see the insurrection
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  #19  
Old 01-10-2009, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by f6fhellcat13 View Post
It's more normal coming from the Germans, Jags are supposed to be classy.
I'm not being inconsistent, I tend not to like supersedans (German especially).
the S-Type R wasn't that much different, or even the XJR variants though.
about the XJR, as the Maserati Quattroporte, it may seem underpowered compared to the Germans, but it's fair enough so it's really tolerable.
on the other hand, the S-Type R was perfectly in line with what the Germans were offering when it came out.
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  #20  
Old 01-10-2009, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead View Post
I guess they choose to limit the cars to 155 mph for aero issues, since after that speed aerodynamic begins to be quite critical, so it's a sort of safe bet.
for the record, speed limit in Italy is 130 km/h (about 81 mph), but the average speed on the third lane is actually 140 km/h
limit the cars to 150 km/h and I can already see the insurrection
140 would be nice I gotta say - 120 is what the going rate on the majors are here and the police essentially will not ticket you at 120.

However, a bit higher than that and things get serious - 150 in Ontario and the max penalty is a roadside vehicle seizure, a 10k fine, and (I think) 6 month licence suspension. I think that is a good way to deal with speeding frankly - I will not go 150 that's for sure.
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  #21  
Old 01-10-2009, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead View Post
the S-Type R wasn't that much different, or even the XJR variants though.
about the XJR, as the Maserati Quattroporte, it may seem underpowered compared to the Germans, but it's fair enough so it's really tolerable.
on the other hand, the S-Type R was perfectly in line with what the Germans were offering when it came out.
I agree, I do not like the S-Type R. The XJ-R and QP manage to be quite classy because they look good but are, at the same time, quite understated.
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  #22  
Old 01-10-2009, 10:47 PM
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Where exactly is the umm... shifter?
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  #23  
Old 01-10-2009, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by baddabang View Post
Where exactly is the umm... shifter?
It's that round dial right under the start engine button. That's how Jag does it now. And while i haven't tried one, it does seem like a good idea since it doesnt take up space for no reason.
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  #24  
Old 01-11-2009, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead
perhaps not over there, but here the bigger the car you own, the stupider way you drive.
fail.

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Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead
I wouldn't say they can't because of the roads or lack of space. cars even if heavier than some years ago are faster and faster, as I told you I could reach almost that speed on a country road near home with a much simplier and less powerful car, without considering highways or other bigger roads of course.
not saying there is the possibility so they will do, I'm not into speeding (not that much at least) nor I encourage it, just saying if someone ever wanted, I can prepare a long list of roads in which to drive at so high speeds.
risking your life of course.
^ yeah, are you familiar with this organization known as the police. they have a relatively large impact on the issue of speeding. in fact they can restrict your ability to drive permanently if you disobey their rules. which to an enthusiast of high performance driving such as yourself, you might as well be dead.
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  #25  
Old 01-11-2009, 01:19 AM
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so this 5 liter supercharged engine produces a whopping 625 NM. Wow. A week earlier Jaguar presented a 3 liter turbo engine, producing 600 NM (and probably 50% less fuel consumption). That version of the XF is also limited at 250 kph. May reason win....
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  #26  
Old 01-11-2009, 01:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henk4 View Post
so this 5 liter supercharged engine produces a whopping 625 NM. Wow. A week earlier Jaguar presented a 3 liter turbo engine, producing 600 NM (and probably 50% less fuel consumption). That version of the XF is also limited at 250 kph. May reason win....
Too bad there's no FWD XF, eh?
Though they did try to increase the power and torque, if they left the 4.2 in it it would have been much more redundant.
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  #27  
Old 01-11-2009, 01:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henk4 View Post
so this 5 liter supercharged engine produces a whopping 625 NM. Wow. A week earlier Jaguar presented a 3 liter turbo engine, producing 600 NM (and probably 50% less fuel consumption). That version of the XF is also limited at 250 kph. May reason win....
A good point henk, but probably more importantly, which is more rewarding to drive?

I also suspect that the diesel's boost is considerably higher than this ones and the engine is also probably heavier.

Off topic, my question to you is how is power delivery with your new sequential turbo C5? I've always heard diesels have lots of low-end torque and are good for low-engine speed grunt yet they have turbochargers which can delay high end throttle response. Does the mid- and low- end torque make the power surge more linear in a turbo diesel than say a turbo gas car? Is there a lot of turbo lag in modern diesels or a car like yours?
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  #28  
Old 01-11-2009, 03:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clivey View Post
I think he just means the principle of limiting the top speed.
Exactly. A Jaguar shouldn't be limited, even if you never exceed 100mph. It's just wrong.

Limiting cars is german thing, don't want germanness in a Jag.
Quote:
Originally Posted by henk4 View Post
so this 5 liter supercharged engine produces a whopping 625 NM. Wow. A week earlier Jaguar presented a 3 liter turbo engine, producing 600 NM (and probably 50% less fuel consumption). That version of the XF is also limited at 250 kph. May reason win....
It's also quite a lot slower and won't sound as nice.
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  #29  
Old 01-11-2009, 03:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitdy View Post
A good point henk, but probably more importantly, which is more rewarding to drive?

I also suspect that the diesel's boost is considerably higher than this ones and the engine is also probably heavier.

Off topic, my question to you is how is power delivery with your new sequential turbo C5? I've always heard diesels have lots of low-end torque and are good for low-engine speed grunt yet they have turbochargers which can delay high end throttle response. Does the mid- and low- end torque make the power surge more linear in a turbo diesel than say a turbo gas car? Is there a lot of turbo lag in modern diesels or a car like yours?
(Referring to the text in bold): Most small diesels with single turbos (like mine) unfortunately suffer from massive turbo lag until about 2,000 rpm.

This is the single characteristic that irritates me most about my car. You can pull-up to a junction, wait for a gap and decide to pull-out...but if you don't manage 2k rpm straight away, you have virtually no power at all (it's as though the car is towing a 5-ton weight). This means when you go to pull away from rest in a diesel, you have to rev it a little before engaging the clutch. If you don't, it's as though you've stalled in the middle of the junction as the car "bogs down".

This is most frustrating when you approach a junction at around 10-mph in second, because on one hand the gearbox won't let you change to first, but on the other, you have no boost in second. This means you have no choice but to depress the clutch pedal, give the engine some revs and feed the clutch back in just to ensure you have some boost to play with...

...otherwise you only have what feels like 10% of the engines' power and torque behind you.

I hope my turbo never fails!

The point I'm trying to make is: Smaller modern diesels don't have good "low-down torque", but once the turbocharger is "on-boost", you have lots of the lovely stuff from about 2,000-4,000rpm. This is why you'll hear motoring writers complementing diesels on "mid-range grunt" or similar.
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  #30  
Old 01-11-2009, 03:12 AM
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I have to agree with Clivey completely on single turbo diesels.
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