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  #16  
Old 01-14-2009, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
Well, everyone knows costumers are imbeciles.
unfortunately, they rule the destiny of our interest.
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  #17  
Old 01-14-2009, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead View Post
unfortunately, they rule the destiny of our interest.
Yes, but after all I think there's still a market for proper cars.

The problem is that it is quite small.
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  #18  
Old 01-14-2009, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
Yes, but after all I think there's still a market for proper cars.

The problem is that it is quite small.
true, but being quite small it risks to be un-remunerative, due to high costs of development and such.
For Ferrari is easier having both the F1 and the manual, since the technical differences between the two are minimal. For Jaguar, for example, a manual would be a completely different transmission from the auto.
now that Ferrari has introduced the DSG, expect them to drop the manual at the end of the next (upcoming) generation of models.
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  #19  
Old 01-14-2009, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
Yes, but after all I think there's still a market for proper cars.

The problem is that it is quite small.
I think its called the United Kingdom.
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  #20  
Old 01-14-2009, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead View Post
true, but being quite small it risks to be un-remunerative, due to high costs of development and such.
For Ferrari is easier having both the F1 and the manual, since the technical differences between the two are minimal. For Jaguar, for example, a manual would be a completely different transmission from the auto.
now that Ferrari has introduced the DSG, expect them to drop the manual at the end of the next (upcoming) generation of models.
In the end, there are still old cars fortunately.
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  #21  
Old 01-14-2009, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead View Post
I'm not so sure about that.
even if I'm pro manual gearbox regardless of what the car is, I can understand why someone heading to a driver's car would request an automatic one.
considering this situation especially:
I have say 100/150.000 euros, and I want to buy a new, fast and good performing car. It would probably be my unique car, because yeah I like cars but I wouldn't seriously switch during the weekend for a more extreme ride, nor I'm into trackdays. So I need something comfortable, spacious and even practical to drive on the traffic on my way to work.
since I can afford such a car I suppose I would work in the downtown, and probably in the long term I would hate an heavy clutch to operate at every traffic jam.
If that was the case I think the cars you mentioned wouldn't be that smart a choice in a sense of practicality.

In that situation there's always going to be a compromise one way or another. Allegedly "suffer" with the manual in traffic or compromise when you want to drive for the sake of driving.

Agreed?

In either one of these two cases the cars mentioned here, an automatic, top of the range, sports version would be the wrong choice.

Either you go for the top of the range sporty manual version and enjoy it when you're really driving or you compromise in which case you wouldn't need the drivers car anymore.

If being comfortable in traffic is more important, then why not take a car with softer suspension, more comfortable seats, better fuel economy and save a great deal in buying it. There is no logical reason why you wouldn't go for lets say a 530d or 7-series instead of an auto M5 for instance.
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  #22  
Old 01-14-2009, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pando View Post
If that was the case I think the cars you mentioned wouldn't be that smart a choice in a sense of practicality.

In that situation there's always going to be a compromise one way or another. Allegedly "suffer" with the manual in traffic or compromise when you want to drive for the sake of driving.

Agreed?

In either one of these two cases the cars mentioned here, an automatic, top of the range, sports version would be the wrong choice.

Either you go for the top of the range sporty manual version and enjoy it when you're really driving or you compromise in which case you wouldn't need the drivers car anymore.

If being comfortable in traffic is more important, then why not take a car with softer suspension, more comfortable seats, better fuel economy and save a great deal in buying it. There is no logical reason why you wouldn't go for lets say a 530d or 7-series instead of an auto M5 for instance.
I, supposedly, would go for an XKR and not an XK8 even if bounded to drive only in Manhattan just because than I could say I own the top of the line, the best, the fastest and other bs.
not a smart choice, not a choice of an enthusiast neither of a person actually thinking to what he is doing.
just the usual ass/customer of expensive cars with less taste/brain than money.
unfortunately, they are a good part of the whole customers.
theoretically, yes, the car should have a manual and even other stuff, but the truth is the market would ask for such a product in the end.

apart from that, I can't see that much of a problem if a Jaguar in particular has the auto. yes, it's a pity it doesn't offer a manual, but thinking Jaguar sportiness and luxury come to mind, not extreme performance or similar.
so an auto fits very well my idea of Jaguar as a whole brand and product.
even if as already stated I would prefer a manual, I understand the presence of the auto.
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  #23  
Old 01-14-2009, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead View Post
apart from that, I can't see that much of a problem if a Jaguar in particular has the auto. yes, it's a pity it doesn't offer a manual, but thinking Jaguar sportiness and luxury come to mind, not extreme performance or similar.
so an auto fits very well my idea of Jaguar as a whole brand and product.
even if as already stated I would prefer a manual, I understand the presence of the auto.
I disagree. If anything a manual fits perfectly Jaguar's values. Or at least it used to.

Only because it doesn't have a stripped out interior, harsh suspension or a loud noise it doesn't mean it isn't a drivers cars.
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  #24  
Old 01-15-2009, 12:14 AM
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I agree with Ferrer completely on the subject. However, the enthusiast UCP members are unfortunately not product designers at these companies (unless there's someone I don't know about). So, we have half-assed cars for people with half-assed taste, which is most everyone... Leon makes the point on marketing though.

It's just business (this is the only time I'll ever type that in distain).
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  #25  
Old 01-15-2009, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTSmash View Post
I agree with Ferrer completely on the subject. However, the enthusiast UCP members are unfortunately not product designers at these companies (unless there's someone I don't know about).
canay?
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  #26  
Old 01-15-2009, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by cmcpokey View Post
canay?
I went on his webpage. It looks as if he does some concept renditions. I havn't found anything yet that would suggest that he is on an auto company's salary though... yet.

Canay-Design
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  #27  
Old 01-15-2009, 01:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTSmash View Post
I agree with Ferrer completely on the subject. However, the enthusiast UCP members are unfortunately not product designers at these companies (unless there's someone I don't know about). So, we have half-assed cars for people with half-assed taste, which is most everyone... Leon makes the point on marketing though.

It's just business (this is the only time I'll ever type that in distain).
Despite that in Europe there still is a marketfor big cars with manuals. Plenty of S-Types were sold with manual gearboxes here.

However since the market for autos is bigger than that of manuals, manufacturers aren't developping big cars with manuals and as result the market for big manuals cars is shrinking.

It's like a vicious circle.
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  #28  
Old 01-15-2009, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTSmash View Post
I went on his webpage. It looks as if he does some concept renditions. I havn't found anything yet that would suggest that he is on an auto company's salary though... yet.

Canay-Design
he designed one of the 9ffs, you'll have to go back a few months of threads, but its there.
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  #29  
Old 01-15-2009, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
However since the market for autos is bigger than that of manuals, manufacturers aren't developping big cars with manuals and as result the market for big manuals cars is shrinking.

It's like a vicious circle.
I agree. I also think this is a reply to what Leon was saying about manual Ferraris.
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  #30  
Old 01-15-2009, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead View Post
now that Ferrari has introduced the DSG, expect them to drop the manual at the end of the next (upcoming) generation of models.
Is this the equivalent to a Tiptronic?
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