The new Vauxhall VXR8

[clutch-monkey]

^ a lot of people seemed to want the wagon too.

Dunno if you were active for a few... G-35, Go America... Good times.

was Go America the one that was defending the SSC despite being woefully ignorant about it's basic specifics?

[fpv_gtho]

But back to Holdens, Falcons and the like. Sure wish we could buy cheap crap like them here in the states.

Well either tell your dealers you want them or be prepared to pay the price for them next time. Holden's been put to hell and back bending over for the US market and developing their cars biased to US tastes, just for the US to reject them and Holden to be stuck with the consequences.

[ozzycarnut]

^^^ Possibly the hardest working troll ever to grace UCP's pages... "entertaining" us old bags at considerable effort.

i guess thats to be commended. considering theres heaps of better stuff to be doing, oh i dunno like, cruising your favourite local bit of road, doing a bit of car spotting, kicking the cat, rethreading a crossthreaded bolt, super gluing your toes together etc, i wonder why old mate has a boner for drama, but anyway, thats just me.

[ozzycarnut]

Dunno if you were active for a few... G-35, Go America... Good times.

i havnt been active for a while. i originally joined to check out car pics and car data. ucp has the largest collection of both that i am aware of (and [random fact] is referenced regularly in the old wikipedia). kinda getting back into it, as life has settled down a bit, and i can indulge in my obsession again.

i probably wasnt missing much with the g-35, go america etc, see above re: kicking the cat etc.

[ozzycarnut]

Technically Barina is a sub-compact and could potentially be compared with a Polo - but that would be doing the Polo a massive injustice. Besides, Barina is a Daewoo built in Korea and Holden should have stuck with the German built Opels that it used to sell. The only real competitors with the Barina are things like the Suzuki Alto and Proton S14 - but personally I think walking is still preferable to these options.
The Holden Cruze could be compared with the compact class Golf. I could find a few good things to say about the Cruze - its has high equipment levels, lots of safety equipment, and unlike some of its competitors it offers a 6-speed auto. Also, being Korean, it will probably be quite reliable, and the quality of Korean products has improved dramatically in recent years. However, the Golf is still the standard setter in the compact class - at least until the new Focus is released in Australia. The Focus tends to be rated either equal to or better than the Golf as a drivers and all-round car in European magazine comparisons and the new Focus has some pretty impressive new engines in the range. I suspect that Focus will be considered the class leader when it is released and it will probably be cheaper than the Golf. I suspect the only question mark over the new Focus will be resale. That will depend on just how well Ford markets the car and how well the market receives it.

By the way, while I am a Ford fan and also like Holdens, for now anyway, I consider a VW Golf GTi Mk6 pretty much all the car anyone needs. It is one of the best all-round cars on the market at any price point. However, I understand why people chose different cars. Needs, wants, opinions and all that.

yes, even when compared to the polo, i would suggest that the barina is a glorified shopping trolley, but i would say that the shopping trolley would probably offer superior ride comfort and handling. it is unfortunate that the barina has slipped remarkably in quality. back in its heyday, it used to be an okay car, not great, but okay, and suitable for going to uni, work, the commute, without costing a fortune.

fortunately i never owned one, but my girlfriend at the time's sister had one. and i used to borrow it from time to time, just to whip up the shops etc. it was still a pos, underpowered, everywhere you look at it, whether it be the milk crate-like seats, to the absolute rubbish stereo, you feel a sense of depression emerging from driving something like this. luckily it was borrowed and i could wash my hands of it after punishing it and bouncing it off the rev limiter for half an hour. good times.

i'm not sure about the focus, in that as far as a potential purchase goes, although it may stack up, there are a few boxes that it doesnt tick. resale would be one, a big question mark over resale, another would be separating yourself from the mazda 3 and toyota corolla brigade (aka boringville). the golf offers this, ticks all the boxes, and yes, i agree, it may be a little bit more expensive, but i think you get a little bit more for your cash. resale, something a bit different, quality fit and finish etc.

i would say the golf is an underrated car. even look at the base model 'poverty spec' 77tsi. available with either a 6 speed manual or 7 speed dsg, it uses fuel at a rate of 6L per 100km, with a 55 litre fuel tank, thats a theoretical range of almost 1000km's, better than just about any car that i am aware of (except probably something like the polo diesel, which gets 4.6L to the 100km's). the problem with the base model golf is theres no fun factor. its just an economical (breathless?) workhorse.

i'd give my spleen for a golf r though. so probably the pick of the bunch is in fact the gti. its almost the r, but not being boring like the base model golf's. even something to consider is the polo gti, $25 - $30k, not bad for a zippy little runabout. its unfortunate that you cant really tow with a gti, as it really would be all the car anyone could need. but really, it ticks every other box so i am just being picky.

[motorsportnerd]

i'm not sure about the focus, in that as far as a potential purchase goes, although it may stack up, there are a few boxes that it doesnt tick. resale would be one, a big question mark over resale, another would be separating yourself from the mazda 3 and toyota corolla brigade (aka boringville). the golf offers this, ticks all the boxes, and yes, i agree, it may be a little bit more expensive, but i think you get a little bit more for your cash. resale, something a bit different, quality fit and finish etc.

I driven the Mk2 Focus extensively. The main problem I had with it was a lack of refinement - something common to a lot of other cars in this class as well. The Mazda3 for example is a great driving car, but even the latest version lacks decent sound supression.
The Mk2 Focus was comparable with the Golf Mk5. The Mk1 Focus was better than the Golf Mk4, particularly as a driver's car as Ferrer noted earlier.
We will have to see exactly what spec levels and engines the Australian market versions of the Mk3 Focus receive, but there is every chance it will replace the Golf Mk6 as the class leader.

The Golf is not so under-rated in Sydney. They are everywhere, usually driven by the trendy crowd or by those that place a premium on a European badge rather than a common Japanese badge.

[crisis]

woefully ignorant about it's basic specifics?

well that sums up a whole lot of em!

[crisis]

They are everywhere, usually driven by the trendy crowd or by those that place a premium on a European badge rather than a common Japanese badge.

No matter where they are built.

[S.O.S]

i like the look of this alot more its the Holden version. (Holden VE II Commodore SSV ) thats a long name.

Attachment 345183

I'll help you. just call it a SSV . or como SSV, or holden SSV.

[S.O.S]

The way this discussion is going, its really for another topic, so i'll try and swing it back a bit. The original claim was that a car like the VXR8 cant be compared to something alot more expensive like one of the German saloons because of the quality difference. IMO, there is a difference but nothing anywhere near as substantial as claimed. I wont speak for Audi's but the quality of BMW's and Mercedes Benz's have tanked over the last generation. Is the Holden dumb technology? Compared to the flashy German stuff, sure. But its alot more reliable as well which is something i dont think you'll agree with though.

I agree with this. my Auntie has a mercedes benz. and my holden has had less drama and complications than her car. she has this massive issue with tyres. they were close to exploding on her. then they had to be shipped in from the dealers, and they had to be the right tyre for that car. something ridiculous in price for a 14-15" rim.. now on the quality side - interior seems to carry much the same plastics as our australian built cars. as a whole, if im to call a falcon/commodore taxi cars. i need to be honest and call bmw cars the same. because honestly they are not that far apart. its hardly proton gen2 vs s class.

[kingofthering]

Classics! OK, caveat then: ONE of the hardest working trolls. Almost 4 years for me, but I was an old bag when I got here...
and who could forget Bleeding Heart (everything ends with 666)?

Bleeding Heart...yeah...I remember the guy...He had a habit of ending his sentences with ellipses...instead of punctuation...

I'm so old I remember Ali baba who was quite entertaining.

Well either tell your dealers you want them or be prepared to pay the price for them next time. Holden's been put to hell and back bending over for the US market and developing their cars biased to US tastes, just for the US to reject them and Holden to be stuck with the consequences.

The problem is that the people who want them aren't necessarily the ones who will buy them.

[ozzycarnut]

I driven the Mk2 Focus extensively. The main problem I had with it was a lack of refinement - something common to a lot of other cars in this class as well. The Mazda3 for example is a great driving car, but even the latest version lacks decent sound supression.
The Mk2 Focus was comparable with the Golf Mk5. The Mk1 Focus was better than the Golf Mk4, particularly as a driver's car as Ferrer noted earlier.
We will have to see exactly what spec levels and engines the Australian market versions of the Mk3 Focus receive, but there is every chance it will replace the Golf Mk6 as the class leader.

The Golf is not so under-rated in Sydney. They are everywhere, usually driven by the trendy crowd or by those that place a premium on a European badge rather than a common Japanese badge.

i havnt had the chance to drive a focus, so i cant really comment on its ride comfort or driveability etc. i have however read up on them through wheels mag, and various car sites etc, and they seem like a great car, top gear seem to rate them very highly.

i see your point with the golf, there is the 'trend setter' crowd to consider when buying one, i guess not unlike an mx5, which carries the 'hairdressers car' label. but in both of these scenarios, a true car nut (like me) looks past the superficial garbage and looks at the motoring package (which may include, performance, quality, thrill factor, value etc) rather than the label that goes with the purchase. thats why my next car will be an mx5, despite the passers by muttering 'shirt lifter' and so forth, i will be in driving nirvana.

moving right along though, and as interesting as this discussion is, this thread topic has been hijacked about a hundred times.

[ozzycarnut]

I agree with this. my Auntie has a mercedes benz. and my holden has had less drama and complications than her car. she has this massive issue with tyres. they were close to exploding on her. then they had to be shipped in from the dealers, and they had to be the right tyre for that car. something ridiculous in price for a 14-15" rim.. now on the quality side - interior seems to carry much the same plastics as our australian built cars. as a whole, if im to call a falcon/commodore taxi cars. i need to be honest and call bmw cars the same. because honestly they are not that far apart. its hardly proton gen2 vs s class.

fair enough s.o.s., you have valid first hand experience with observing and owning german and ozzy stuff, but would you consider that your judgement may be tainted as you own a holden? i am not suggesting that you are talking hot air, but if i owned a particular car, and it worked very well, and i was very happy with it, i would sing its praises, which i do with my humble corolla, would you say that when comparing your car with something more expensive to purchase, operate and repair, there would be bias toward the holden? i.e. take price of both cars out of the equation and compare everything from the ground up etc.

i am aware that german stuff is obviously not all made in germany these days, with alot of stuff being outsourced to brazil and other countries, and holden chosing the chinese to knock up some of their stuff, however, when you take the country of origin out of the equation, as well as price, and compare two cars side by side, so in this instance, the vxr8 and something like an audi rs6 or rs4, or a mercedes s500, all having the medium / large 4 door saloon type of layout, and being a bit more than the average family shopping hack. there are other cars that you could throw in the blender obviously with this comparison, but this is a quick comparison. if i were to compare the rs4 or rs6 with the vxr8, it would not even begin.

audi quality is legendary, with among the lowest panel gaps in the industry, i think lexus have the least the last i read. thats before we get anywhere near the 'massive-piles-of-cash-spent-on-it' engine and drivetrain. i dont think i really need to pull out figures on the rs's, which i do have available *looks at trusty piles of motoring mags* if anyone is bored, but really, compared to a vxr8, i think we might as well be comparing it to a trusty cab in this fine sunburnt country of ours as that is how far apart these cars are in my opinion. take out the price disparity, and the holden stuff just cant compete with similar german stuff.

[crisis]

take out the price disparity, and the holden stuff just cant compete with similar german stuff.

Compare how? Panel gaps are a nice measure of perceived quality but how does that manifest itself in a functional way? How does it improve performance, handling or the overall driving experience?

What actual advantage are you getting for paying twice the price for these European cars?

[Ferrer]

audi quality is legendary

Audi understeer is legendary too.