The State of The Car

[Ferrer]

Could the basic 2 Series coupé actually be the best BMW on sale?

BMW 2-Series Coupe Gains 1.5-liter Three-Cylinder Engine

[jcp123]

Here's something which has been weighing on my mind: the virtual elimination of true, three-pedal manuals. Paddle-shifted 8-speed ZFs and various DSG/PDKs have been taking over. Anyone else troubled?

[Kitdy]

There's no reason for them outside some dinosaur enthusiasts. Sticks are fun, but manufacturers have a hard time justifying them now that autos are more efficient.

They'll putter around in a niche role and there's always the used market. I'm not too bothered really.

[NSXType-R]

I still haven't had the opportunity to learn how to drive a stick shift car.

[jcp123]

There's no reason for them outside some dinosaur enthusiasts. Sticks are fun, but manufacturers have a hard time justifying them now that autos are more efficient.

They'll putter around in a niche role and there's always the used market. I'm not too bothered really.

Actually that's only partly true that the autos are more efficient.

[Ferrer]

Actually that's only partly true that the autos are more efficient.

And they aren't. I'm sure of the more technical-minded people here could explain the reasons.

And although computer can make up for some of the mistakes humans do, it still takes some skills to extract the best from automatic gearboxes.

And I don't see manuals going away any time soon.

[f6fhellcat13]

And they aren't. I'm sure of the more technical-minded people here could explain the reasons...

In most automated transmissions, pumps need to be pumped and actuators actuated; all of which requires horses' powers. In addition, those luddites still holding onto their torque converters cannot lock them below 20 (or so) mph, further sapping efficiency. The upshot of all this being that even if the automatic has a higher advertised efficiency than the manual, the manual is still likely subject to fewer losses in transmission; the only advantage of the automatics is that you can put ninety-twelve gears in them, because the driver doesn't have to worry about shifting through all of them. That tends to be from where the automatic's higher rated economy is derived.

And although computer can make up for some of the mistakes humans do, it still takes some skills to extract the best from automatic gearboxes.

And I don't see manuals going away any time soon.

Now that automatics are getting very complex very quickly, I think manuals will be able to ride out their simplicity/thrift for a while yet. There is also the, admittedly-small, matter of appealing to us enthusiasts. Even if 90% of Miatas are bought as automatics by hairstylists, the stick is critical to that particular car's image.

[Kitdy]

And Ferrer is right. There are many markets that are more focused on price than North America; huge amounts of manuals are still sold in Europe. If ya wanted, you could go purchase a cheapo stick Fiesta or FiST from any Ford dealer and have a great time. I want to.

I'm not sure about the situation in Latin America, China, or South East Asia but my guess would be manuals are strong.

[jcp123]

Outside of the US, manuals are almost a cultural thing.

But take a look at the high-line cars which are no longer even offering a manual...DSG-type transmissions as well as the ZF 8-speed are taking over.

[Kitdy]

Luxury, and now performance, are not really in tune with the manual gearbox in most cases.

[jcp123]

Luxury I understand. Performance I halfway understand. It just...feels weird.

[Ferrer]

Manuals are still pretty much prevalent in Europe. Yes, the automatic is making inroads in some segments, especially those which are larger and/or more powerful, but still you can get a large percentage of the cars currently on sale with manuals.

In many cases you enter a dealer when you want to buy a car and the salesman does not tell you are looking at a manual car or asks whether you'd want an automatic. In fact it is the other way round, when I got the Giulietta the salesman told me that he had an automatic, in case I had reticence.

[Ferrer]

Fislerazda?

FCA y Mazda se acabarán casando, ya os lo dije...

(It's in Spanish, but whatever)

[NSXType-R]

I hope not. Fiat and Chrysler aren't exactly great at handling their own finances. Forget about absorbing Mazda. They're doing quite well actually.

I've always wondered, if any company decides to buy a 51% stake in a smaller company, can the smaller company say "thanks but no thanks"?

I'm not familiar with corporate law and such though.

[Ferrer]

I'm not familiar with corporate law either, but I doubt a company (or an individual) can buy another company if their owners don't want to sell it.

Anyway, I think that this could be a good move for both. Mazda needs a larger partner to survive because car-making business is increasingly getting tougher and you need larger volumes in order to be able to make the large investments technology development requires. Mazda as is now is too small to survive in the global car market in the long term.

On the other hand Alfa Romeo (and possibly Fiat/Abarth too, maybe junior Dodges and Chryslers as well) can benefit from the developments Mazda has made with their SkyActiv programme, in both drivetrain and platform lightweight technology. For me Mazda is currently at the top of the game in driving dynamics for generalist manufacturers.

I don't think Fiat is "a Volkswagen" and they could manage Mazda correctly. In my opinion they are piloting Maserati's donwmarket journey very well as well as Chrysler's and Jeep's renaissance, so if these are any indication they could also do a good job with Mazda. And Mazda with the increased resources at their disposal could develop even better and more interesting cars/technologies.