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  #76  
Old 11-28-2013, 09:50 AM
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drakkie drakkie is offline
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We use this system for the production lines at my work. It's nothing new and has been used for over 30 years in some companies in Netherlands. If you want to know more, let me know, I work with them, programme them and sometimes even drink coffee on them riding along We have some solar panels on our roof and use that for powering all kinds of machines. Still we have our own powerplant though.

Fahrerlose Transportsysteme (FTS)


Last edited by drakkie; 11-28-2013 at 09:52 AM.
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  #77  
Old 11-28-2013, 09:58 AM
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Matra et Alpine Matra et Alpine is offline
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Where would you store power in a "smart road" economically ?
Wind and sun are the worst once to cope with but wave/tidal also has low output periods.
re 'generation' most EU countries already operate "feed in" tarrifs to utilise the power generated in the supply grid. Note this requires a sophisticated grid management and distribution network that none have yet - thus in Scotland the power distributors often PAY the wind turbine generation companies NOT to supply power as they have no more distribution capacity.
Until we sort out sensible cost effective storage and improved distribution it is still a way off for the real benefits.
Check IAV , German patent for wireless charging and payment solution
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  #78  
Old 11-29-2013, 05:52 AM
mansouryar mansouryar is offline
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@drakkie,

It sounds nice. Yes, please explain if you like; about advantages, disadvantages, every point that can be useful for the electric cars. It's up to you.

@Matra et Alpine,

I think the mentioned green generators need to be in a smart interaction with the grid and the target cars. That would be rational to activate the inductive charging coils only when a needed car is being detected. At other periods, the green power plants keep giving power to the grid normally. This may be an approach to act as economically as possible. I mean to consume energy whenever is needed.

The next solution, can be storing the power just in case. Using any kind of (exclusive) battery would be against initial goals of acting environment-friendly.
I suggest applying compressed-air tanks. The extra power would be stored in the form of compressed air and ought to be used during short intervals (e.g., 2-3 days). This is similar to that mechanism which was proposed for the car itself, to compress the air by the electric compressors or pumps, or storing the power in supercapacitors only and only because lithium batteries would not be our absolute option.

I agree establishing such a system is complicated and expensive, so maybe that is appropriate to start the project in small scales. For example, realizing this plan for two villages and the road between them is easier & cheaper than realizing it for a city, or as a national project. It is better the residents of both villages would like the project and could afford it, at least would be supported by the government, major automakers, big power companies, …

If the project would be improved after passing tests and experiencing various conditions, I guess other areas will want to try it. Regarding the fact that it is a highly green activity, and also it could create jobs, tourism attraction, betterment of local economy, reducing the dependence to other cities and even foreign countries, I believe it should be treated in a strategic landscape.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine View Post
Check IAV , German patent for wireless charging and payment solution
Thanks for pointing out. I found this link:

Gas 2 | What is the future of fuel? Whats next? Since 2007, Gas 2 has covered a rapidly changing world coming to terms with its oil addiction.

It was informative. Let me select this part:
Quote:
IAV has achieved 90% efficient transmission for electric vehicle charging from roads using recessed electrical conductors that generate a magnetic field; activated only when the sensor detects that an electric car is over the induction field. Radio chips would identify individual electric vehicles for correct billing.

The key issue has been maintaining a set distance between the sensor under the vehicle and the roadway.To solve that, the vehicle sensor must use active suspension and to also utilize optical electronic controls to maintain a consistent distance between the road and the sensor.
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  #79  
Old 11-29-2013, 12:12 PM
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drakkie drakkie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mansouryar View Post
@drakkie,

It sounds nice. Yes, please explain if you like; about advantages, disadvantages, every point that can be useful for the electric cars. It's up to you.
For our purpose it is quite a good system. We basically have multiple circles or sections of assembly line with these carts. Each section of about 150 meter long has it's own PLC. (If your wondering, we use robotic cranes to transfer the engines automatically from line to line).
Control of the line goes via a PC with a software interface. We have some inducters placed along our line that feed into a strip inside the floor. The carts will then pick up the power and feed that into their systems. Using some sensors the cart measure it's position from point A to point B, which has a pre-programmed stop/working position. That's how it works in a nutshell I guess.



The advantage for us is the enormous flexibility. If we move some stuff around, we can adjust the working positions in a few minutes time. The operator can also lift the engine up to 1,5 metres high by just pressing a button (can be handy mounting some stuff or for example when engaging the thrust bearing).
Main disadvantage is the expense. The carts run on a special track of some kind of hardened gel. Also the pickups are really close to the floor which creates a problem if the operator drops a bolt and it gets under the cart.

For assembly line work the system is pretty good. However to use on the road would be rather difficult. Mostly because you cant put gel on every road not even to mention bumps (or PLC's every few hundred metres).
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  #80  
Old 11-30-2013, 04:31 PM
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Matra et Alpine Matra et Alpine is offline
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mansourya, I think you would benefit by researching energy storage and power distribution issues faced and beign addressed in countries who have feed-in tarrif systems.
Your replies are not feasible. it is not possible to just "put power back into a grid system", nor is it feasible to store megawatts of power in compressed air !
In Scotland there are numerous papers published which show the real challenge in power storage and delivery when we envisage 50% of the road going cars using electric power in one form or another.

Not sure the point you highlight re conductive, BUT remember that it is only 20 years ago we were unable to consider a mobile phone network offering full connectivity. Inductive pickup is still in infancy. They are offering a "today solution" to the gap issue, just as with radar and directed mobile signals I expect we will see advances in ELECTRONIC adaptive induction transfer.

Drakkie we had similar which use a reflective tape, thus easy to lay down, move, repair.
However, I suspect yours is in a heavier usage area needing something more harder wearing

PS: have you considered the service and replacement interval for components in your system to enable ethem to remain at high efficiency ?
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  #81  
Old 12-01-2013, 09:45 AM
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drakkie drakkie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine View Post
Drakkie we had similar which use a reflective tape, thus easy to lay down, move, repair.
However, I suspect yours is in a heavier usage area needing something more harder wearing

PS: have you considered the service and replacement interval for components in your system to enable ethem to remain at high efficiency ?
I presume it is. I'd estimate we transport a weight of about 3 tonnes including the cart and an engine. It'd be very interesting though when you think of it. Perhaps some moveable sections which you could bolt to the floor or something would be nice. I think it would require the stopping positions to be reprogrammed every time though which could be a major pain in the arse timewise.
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  #82  
Old 12-02-2013, 11:38 AM
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Matra et Alpine Matra et Alpine is offline
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"Alledgedly" engineers would cut gaps in the tapes to see who could get the widest without stopping the carts
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  #83  
Old 12-02-2013, 11:48 AM
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drakkie drakkie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine View Post
"Alledgedly" engineers would cut gaps in the tapes to see who could get the widest without stopping the carts
Sounds like a good sport for the bored times In our case though when the carts leave the track just 10 cm's the power is gone and we need to push 3 tonnes ourselves. Not a great experience I can tell you
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  #84  
Old 01-01-2014, 03:56 PM
mansouryar mansouryar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine View Post
nor is it feasible to store megawatts of power in compressed air !
It is feasible. However, I suggest smaller scales. I forgot this issue had been mentioned before, read my replies (pages 3 & 4):

Ultimatecarpage.com forums - View Single Post - Two Propulsions of Electricity and Compressed-air for a Hybrid Car
Ultimatecarpage.com forums - View Single Post - Two Propulsions of Electricity and Compressed-air for a Hybrid Car

I say again: This program is valuable to be considered seriously. It is essentially cleaner than dealing with batteries. Reading these links might be useful:

HowStuffWorks
Saving wind power for later - CNET News
Catching The Wind In A Bottle - Businessweek
http://www.science.org.au/nova/newsc.../037ns_002.htm
http://www.sandia.gov/ess/publications/120388.pdf
Bottled Wind Could Be as Constant as Coal - Wired Science
Scrapped Iowa project leaves energy storage lessons | Midwest Energy News
Compressed air energy storage - the Iowa story | The Climate and Energy Project
Cities to store wind power for later use - US news - Environment - Green Machines | NBC News
Advanced Energy Storage Systems Market by Technology (Pumped Hydro, Compressed Air, Batteries, Flywheels, Supercapacitors), By Applications (Grid Storage Forecast to 2018 - News and Weather For The Quad Cities -

Related somehow: Pumped-storage hydroelectricity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

****

The proposal of such smart roads having independent, non-concentrated power generating spots, is fit for crowded, polluted cities.
Expanding this idea to less populated districts, makes it pretty expensive. Therefore, it should be viewed as an auxiliary approach; the main approach must be empowering the car itself.
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  #85  
Old 02-06-2014, 09:40 AM
mansouryar mansouryar is offline
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.
After reading a cool report on a 3-wheeler vehicle, I thought maybe it is possible to use a special feature of that vehicle, to generate power in my proposed car.


Source: The TerraCraft: A convertible, tilting 3-wheeler with a unique steering system

Quote:
The Terracraft is a sharp-looking 3-wheeler concept that aims to offer a unique hybrid of the motorcycle riding and car driving experiences. Its retractable roof and doors can offer weather protection and aerodynamics, its tandem double seat replicates the motorcycle pillion experience, and its unique steering system means the driver can manually dial in a tilt angle to replicate the sensation of leaning a motorcycle into a corner.
The plan is making regenerative, hydraulic, piezo, and solenoid electricity, out of definite junctions & bars, which cause mechanism of tilting in TerraCraft.

One can consider rolling the cabin in a 4-wheeler car, just like or quite similar to the 3-wheeler one, at least in tiny angles. Having these tiny angles integrated over a specific mileage, I guess the amount of (re)generated power would be considerable, maybe about 1 Kw scales would be accessible.

Assume this tilting specification could generate power in tilting some degrees to right, and same degrees to left, when it is being steered.

The driver can adjust this tilting mechanism in two modes: By switching on, the whole body rotates after turning the steer or any change in a constant velocity. This mode brings more excitement and less comfort for the passengers.

By switching off, the main compartment stands still and other possible compartments (hood and trunk frameworks) can be tilted in a way that was mentioned before.

Of course, there must be enough space for trunk and hood to be leaned in little amounts, but the inner stuffs keep functioning properly. This is a highly delicate task to be realized.

Also, it should be verified which mode gives more secure, more stable, and more electricity, plus more comfort & peace for the consumers.

I liked what the inventor says:

Quote:
I have the rolling chassis, I have the suspension fabricated up and right now I'm about to start doing some refinements in the steering linkage to mitigate bumps and such.
.
… the lean is going to be an intuitive lean assist type deal … basically it's a hydraulic, hydro-mechanical type deal, so right now you'll have options. It could be sensors in the seat that sense when you lean, just like riding a motorcycle when you shift your weight over. If you lean to the left, the seat senses that lean, and there would be like a volume control – just for general understanding – so the more you lean, the quicker it leans, just like a motorcycle.
Although, there is a little disagreement:
Quote:
So… the steering is independent from the leaning? "Correct." And you control the leaning by shifting your bodyweight. "Yes."
The difference: My car does not work that way by bodyweight as the main factor, it takes advantage of normal roads implications, when the driver changes the speed, or direction.

Actually, this approach would cause complexity to the whole structure. However, the very idea seems pretty interesting.

The vertical cantilevers that bear the involved bars, can give contribution to piezo, hydraulic and solenoid power too.

A similar idea was pointed out for the separate suspension system of seats, inspired from a type of electro-hydraulic shock absorber. It was about bouncing while this is about titling, quite inspired from Terra Craft invention. One more step closer to the ideal regenerating, not a miracle out of nothing.


To have a better impact on the fossil materials issue, I think we must use green, plant-based, environmental friendly oils for the junctions in this tilting system.

****


For more information:

Welcome to TerraCraft Motors | TerraCraftMotors.com
TerraCraft Tilting Enclosed Reverse Trike Concept
Terracraft Motors ThreeWheelTilter EV Concept

and images:

3-Wheeled TerraCraft Motorcycle Concept by TerraCraft Motors | Tuvie
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  #86  
Old 04-10-2014, 07:12 AM
mansouryar mansouryar is offline
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Some weeks ago, two reports on new methods of gas storage, drew my attention. Then I thought that would be proper to apply those methods to store the compressed air inside the body & other points of my proposed car.
By reading this report:

In Search of the Long-Distance Natural Gas Automobile


You will find out “Why is Honda’s Civic CNG the only factory-built natural gas car?

The answer is:

Quote:
Because storing the energy content of a single gallon of gasoline at atmospheric pressure would consume a Civic’s entire cabin and trunk—and stink to high heaven. Therefore, it has to be pressurized. A lot. At 3600 psi, it’s still 3.8 times as bulky as gasoline, and containing it at that pressure is expensive and requires outsized cylinders that don’t conform to underfloor space like cheap blow-molded plastic gasoline tanks do.
The report mentions: “a Civic gasoline tank holds about 40 MJ/kg, for less than $100”; I guess a similar tank for my car would be needed too.

So the author points out his three favorite solutions:

1. Gas-tro Intestinal by San Francisco’s Otherlab

More links:

Otherlab!
Tucker Gilman | LinkedIn
Intestinal Natural Gas Storage | ARPA-E
DownstreamToday.com - News and Information for the Downstream Oil and Gas Industry

Specifically, pay attention to this quotation:

Quote:
Smaller diameter tubes can be bent (respecting a 1:8 ratio of tube radius to bend radius), and by stacking and nesting such bent tubes, the storage tank can better conform to underbody packaging. Tucker claims Otherlab can meet ARPA’s target with high-strength steel.
I think this resemblance to human’s intestines can be used for train-like trapped compressed air packs. The location of these bent tubes may be inside the body and any other proper point of the car, i.e., a very generalized concept of tank!

2. Metal Air Mattress by Pacific Northwest National Laboratory; and 3. Metal Sponge by Ford.

****

Another promising report is about a breakthrough from BASF, the world’s largest chemical company.

It would be quite interesting to verify this breakthrough on industrial-scale manufacture of metal organic frameworks (MOFs) for energy storage at Natural Gas Vehicles (NGVs) to compressed-air tanks & tubes of my car.
I suggest checking out these useful links:

http://www.youtube. com/watch?v=nSP-VDwKz5o
Critical Lozenge: the CNG Cylinder | Fleets and Fuels.com
http://www.basf.com/group/corporate/...s-usa/P-13-452
First industrial-scale MOF synthesis, BASF - Converting News
BASF Corp. | Metal Organic Frameworks Get Tryout | Chemical Processing
BASF to Showcase Metal Organic Frameworks (MOFs) For Energy Storage
Omar Yaghi's Laboratory | Department of Chemistry at the University of California, Berkeley
Materials Chemistry: Metal-Organic Frameworks Go Commercial | Chemical & Engineering News
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  #87  
Old 04-18-2014, 11:47 AM
mansouryar mansouryar is offline
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This new type of wind turbine sounds interesting & promising:


SheerWind's INVELOX Wind Turbine Can Generate 600% More Energy Than Conventional Turbines | Inhabitat - Sustainable Design Innovation, Eco Architecture, Green Building

Quote:
US-based wind energy company SheerWind just unveiled the INVELOX – a tunnel-based wind turbine that can produce up to 600% more power than traditional wind turbines. The company states that after extensive field-testing, their new INVELOX turbine “significantly outperforms the traditional turbine” and could reduce installation capital costs to less than $750 per KW.

The INVELOX energy system works by capturing ground-level breezes and funneling them through a tapering passageway that naturally accelerates wind flow. Unlike other turbines, it also minimizes environmental and animal impact, and it requires no government subsidies to be profitable. All of this makes INVELOX a potentially game-changing renewable energy solution that could be easily integrated within commercial renewable energy operations.
I suggest using them in the highways to feed the smart roads. Definitely, mounting them in the highway medians and barriers as proposed in this post.

Even some parts of this system can be embedded under the ground, for safety, maintenance, and efficiency considerations.


Informative links:

SheerWind
How it Works | Sheerwind
SheerWind | LinkedIn
INVELOX - Turbine Generator Systems by SheerWind
A Down-To-Earth Wind Turbine > ENGINEERING.com
SheerWind claims its INVELOX wind turbine produces 600% more power
SheerWind claims world's first 25 MW wind power tower (Video) - Pennenergy
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  #88  
Old 07-31-2014, 05:19 AM
mansouryar mansouryar is offline
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Two samples can be kind of inspiration to make the solenoid electricity bits, pretty sealed off.

The first sample is this cool paddleboarder, having a waterproof battery:

ElectraFin offers extra propulsion for paddleboarders

As the maker claims, one feature is: 100% Waterproof Electronics, All ElectraFin components are rated to a minimum of IP67 waterproof standards:

ElectraFin™: The First Universal Electric Powered Watersports Fin - Current Drives

The second sample is this engineering masterpiece, Rinspeed sQuba, the world's first car that can be driven both on land and under water:

sQuba: World's First Underwater Car
2008 Rinspeed SQuba | car review @ Top Speed
The Rinspeed sQuba - Amphibious Cars - The Automotive eZine
An Electric Car That Dives Underwater: The Rinspeed sQuba : TreeHugger
Rinspeed Squba (2009) CAR review | Road Testing Reviews | Car Magazine Online



.
Maybe the next needed step for my design, would be considering the above samples for the solenoid electricity pieces, to preserve the inner vacuum, as long as possible.
.
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  #89  
Old 08-05-2014, 01:31 AM
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Matra et Alpine Matra et Alpine is offline
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HI, been a while and see you are still following your dreams.

BIG problem when you try to completely seal any substantial electronics ( inc batteries ) is heat management and dissipation. In a car with only air as medium to dissipate it can be difficult. You most likely then need to add radiators and heatsinks which add weight and consume energy. But keep thinking

Channeled air wind turbines like the Sheerwind amazes me it's getting space These were all researched in the last one hundred years. In ideal conditions it can show fantastic results. In reality wind gusts will stall a funnel channel and in cases can cause reversal at the turbine Tuning the length of the funnel becomes key to making it a success at all air speeds and it amazes me that this piece of published research hasn't been taken account in the SHeerwind promo website. I did read their latest and see they even now mention a venturi concept - I suspect because they spotted that funnelling can get reversal at the blades and realised that a venturi doesn't A common "illness" of todays venture-capital-seeking entrepreneurs seems to be not researching enough
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  #90  
Old 08-06-2014, 02:55 AM
mansouryar mansouryar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine View Post
BIG problem when you try to completely seal any substantial electronics ( inc batteries ) is heat management and dissipation. In a car with only air as medium to dissipate it can be difficult. You most likely then need to add radiators and heatsinks which add weight and consume energy.
That’s a simple challenge, IMO. Also, making power out of any considerable heat source could be an advantage in this framework.
Quote:
Channeled air wind turbines like the Sheerwind amazes me it's getting space These were all researched in the last one hundred years. In ideal conditions it can show fantastic results. In reality wind gusts will stall a funnel channel and in cases can cause reversal at the turbine Tuning the length of the funnel becomes key to making it a success at all air speeds
Thanks to the breakthroughs in the materials science & engineering, I think the story is different from the past tries over the last century. Such blades and channels could be made from materials to properly resist against the wind gusts. However, we surely need to do computer simulations and real tests to present the best configuration of these turbines near smart roads.
To screw the (energy of) harmful funnel and to extract the (energy of) useful funnel, are the key points in this approach
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