Drivers Republic GT2 v GTR around the Nurburgring

[LeonOfTheDead]

Maybe have the great Walter Rohl drive both cars?

he would be unable to turn on the LOL GT-R just because every porsche has the key on the other side of the steering wheel

[Rockefella]

I'm starting to dislike the Nurburgring

[Guibo]

Chris Harris (Porsche owner and Porsche racer): GT-R on Bridgestones is 6.9 seconds slower than GT2.

Porsche: GT-R on Dunlops is 20 seconds slower than GT2.

Whether the GT-R matched its claimed time isn't nearly as relevant as how close it was to the GT2 (the GT2 was also far off its claimed time). This has been confirmed in independent test after independent test. Also important to note is that the GT-R is faster than the Porsche in many corners. And its lap time here is pretty much even with Horst von Saurma's time in the 997 Turbo (the GT-R's original target, remember), done in the dry with MPSC's...

[monaroCountry]

Maybe have the great Walter Rohl drive both cars?

He did, I think the best he could do was 7:45-46. From what I heard this wasnt a Porsche test either, it was done during a test by a suspension company. Again the GT2 was faster.

There have now been around 5 Nissan GTR tests that have netted in the 7:50's range, all driven by professional drivers.


and the results were....

Porsche 997 GT2 - 7:32
Nissan GT-R - 7:46

[monaroCountry]

Whether the GT-R matched its claimed time isn't nearly as relevant as how close it was to the GT2 (the GT2 was also far off its claimed time). This has been confirmed in independent test after independent test. Also important to note is that the GT-R is faster than the Porsche in many corners. And its lap time here is pretty much even with Horst von Saurma's time in the 997 Turbo (the GT-R's original target, remember), done in the dry with MPSC's...

READ CAREFULLY...............its there in black and white for the GTR fanbois to weep and carry on over. Same day, the same driver, and the same conditions.

GT2
“Given the times we set were both some-way off the manufacturers’ claims, how do we feel about those claims? Well, Walter’s time is 17-seconds faster than this, and having experienced the GT2 at full-afterburner, I have no doubt that the car will achieve that time. I could show you where I’ve lost five seconds on just a handful of sections. In fact I suspect that Herr Rohrl could go a little faster still.

NOW

GTR
I just don’t see where another 27-seconds comes from with the car I drove. I felt that I came much closer to extracting the maximum performance of the Nissan on this single-flying-lap challenge than I did the Porsche.

[clutch-monkey]

i bet most people here would run a better time in the GT-R. so the GT-R is faster then?
i prefer to earn my speed but still..

[Guibo]

READ CAREFULLY...............its there in black and white for the GTR fanbois to weep and carry on over. Same day, the same driver, and the same conditions.

It's also in plain black and white that the GT-R's usually incredible traction is tempered by the weather:
"In the wet and the damp, and on a cold surface that denies it the tyre temperature it so needs to operate to its proper abilities, the GT-R feels every bit as big as its 1740kg weight suggests. Like the GT2, either axle will relinquish grip at any time, but the lack of traction is the most surprising problem. The main issue here is that to anyone who has experienced its extraterrestrial abilities, the GT-R is loaded with expectation - you expect it to fashion something from nothing - but a wet Nurburgring vanquishes its indomitability. It's still far more driveable than something so heavy has any right to be, but on the treacherous sections that had the GT2 instantaneously slithering a car width to the outside of the turn, a the GT-R's greater mass forces it even further to the outside of the circuit."
Now, compare that with Harris's observation driving this very same car in an earlier test:
"But you already know that the GT-R can do astonishing things with asphalt, that it conjures far more forward momentum than its 272bhp-per-tonne would suggest is possible and it changes direction so obediently you wonder if the quoted 1740kg kerb weight is a typographical blunder. It is one of only two cars I have driven that actively imposes its demands on the road surface and then actuates its mechanicals accordingly."

Same driver, same exact car. Yet in one test, the GT-R feels every bit as heavy as its weight suggests, in the other, he wonders if the quoted kerb weight is accurate, as it feels far too light. What's the difference? Aside from location, it's the damp surface. Ask yourself if any 3900-lb car should be only 7 seconds slower than a GT2 on a high speed track like the 'Ring. Consider a BMW M6, for instance...
Have you ever seen a test of the GT-R in the dry in which "the lack of traction is the most surprising problem?" If you have, please post it up.

It's not unusual that he'd feel more comfortable taking the GT2 to its limits. He's an owner of an older 911 (probably just as hairy if not moreso than the GT2):
TV, videos, motorsport events, driving techniques | DR TV | DRIVERS REPUBLIC
He'd just come fresh from yet another VLN race at the 'Ring in a modern 911 when this article was written. Other editors have noted that to get the best out of the GT-R, you have to throw it around a bit, rally style, and then let the electronics kill any understeering or oversteering tendencies on the exits. This is exactly the kind of aggression Suzuki shows in his driving, but it's not apparent at all in these videos; probably weather related, with Harris wondering (rightly) what 3900 lbs of someone else's car hitting the barrier might feel like.

So, we have from Nissan's test:
Thousands of laps of development
Dunlops
Perfect conditions (even the sun was in a more ideal position; check the videos)

From DR's test:
3 laps
Bridgestones
Inclement weather

Anyone with any comprehension of scientific methods (apparently, this excludes yourself) would know this article doesn't disprove Nissan's claim. If anything it bolsters the position that the GT-R is a lot closer to the GT2 than Porsche claims. The claim of 20 seconds slower on Dunlops (and, thus, about 25 seconds on Bridgestones) sounds like a heaping pile of dung. Notice I didn't say "starts to sound like" because this is what we've seen in prior independent tests.

"Fanbois"...oh, if only you could understand the irony!

[Roentgen]

Sorry, Nissan GTR is better.

[henk4]

If you have questions about the test, the Driver Republic people are willing to answer them right here.

are they willing to enter this forum discussion?
It is also interesting that the article states that they have video evidence of the famed 7.29 GTR lap. (And not of the Porsche times...)

[Matra et Alpine]

I'm starting to dislike the Nurburgring

Don't confuse the tool with the users.

The 'Ring is fantastic and until the fanboy generation jumped on it was a great insight into the cars.

To paraphrase "don't shoot the messenger" ....

Don't shoot the 'Ring ..................... but monarCountry is fair game

[monaroCountry]

It's still far more driveable than something so heavy has any right to be, but on the treacherous sections that had the GT2 instantaneously slithering a car width to the outside of the turn, a the GT-R's greater mass forces it even further to the outside of the circuit."

Sounds like your typical understeer.......a common trait with the piggy GTR. Wasnt the GTR susposed to be great in the rain? Wasnt the MPSC tires closer to racing slicks which is renouned to be treacherous in the rain? Wasnt the GT2 a killer in the rain?

Nissan you lieing SOB

[monaroCountry]

Don't shoot the 'Ring ..................... but monarCountry is fair game

Nissan fanbois running out of excuses and starting to attack the messenger. Dont worry ive got a tough hide, the main thing is that Nissan's cheating ways gets exposed (yet again).

[LeonOfTheDead]

I just giot my compy of EVO (the Italian version is getting worst and worst with every release ). one of the articles featured is about the 'ring test with the Zonda, the MC12 (no relationship with out MC) and the CCX.

the Zonda basically confirmed the time previously achieved last year, and all the cars had similar lap times in the high 7:20 or 7:33 for the Koenigsegg. something I supposed the most of you already know.
what I would like to say is that I always felt as the improvement in 'ring times was due mainly to the improvement of the capabilities of new tires. I was not comparing Bridgestone VS Dunlop, just saying that I thought tires were improved a lot in the last few years, allowing for "average" sport cars as the Beetle GT2, the Plastic ZR1 and the LOL GT-R to achieve times of the same levels of the super exotics.
my main complains were about: carbon fiber chassis, less weight, more power and perhaps even better aero. since those cars (the super exotics) are usually referred to as the best you can have (money apart), I was refusing more the possibility of the match between the times of the two different kind of cars than the fact that the LOL GT-R was so close to the Beetle GT2 or not.
with all those tests between the two contenders, it came up that basically both times are a little too optimistic, or un-achievable without a series of hypothesis, not that I was interested in going out there and roush the ring with my new twin turbo Zonda good for 1200 bhp...
when the article in EVO showed me how the super exotics confirmed their abilities, with the times expected while all four cars driven in same conditions and bla bla bla, I thought that most of all, both the Beetle GT2 and the LOL GT-R were "lying". I can stand the fact that the technology is improving, that a DSG gearbox allows you to change gear really fast without moving the hand away from the steering wheels and so on, but there are things, like a good carbon fiber chassis, hundreds of kg less and some couple of hundred hp more, that are hard to beat.
nothing new, nothing I care about that much. just wondering, why no one claimed the time of the Plastic ZR1 was false too? it's quite "light", it has power, but it's still a Corvette. somehow I like it, but I would like to know just why no one doubted its time.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

You've been warned about this S**t before Monaro Country.

The thread's been debunked. You've been debunked.

Now, not to put too fine a point on it, but please crawl off somewhere & Die.

Regards,
UCP.

[henk4]

You've been warned about this S**t before Monaro Country.

The thread's been debunked. You've been debunked.

Now, not to put too fine a point on it, but please crawl off somewhere & Die.

Regards,
UCP.

from a mod this sounds like a ban, but is it?