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Thread: The State of The Car

  1. #661
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitdy View Post
    it will be fun to have with powerful but lightly sprung ... wagon on high profile tires.
    Welcome to the Dark Side, Luke.

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    "Kimi, can you improve on your [race] finish?"
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  2. #662
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    Noooo!

    I saw a Roadmaster a few days ago driven by a very old man who parked very poorly. That will be me in 10 years.

  3. #663
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    There are plenty of things you can do with your Mazda thats not just commuting. Racing is fun, and you don't need a fancy toy to do it regularly.

    This is in your neck of the woods too...



    Ontario has plenty of oppotunity to have fun in a road car, prepped or not, legally, in a racing/competition environment.
    University of Toronto Formula SAE Alumni 2003-2007
    Formula Student Championship 2003, 2005, 2006
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  4. #664
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    Oh I wouldn't mind autocross. It's the family car though.

  5. #665
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    So was that Civic...lol

    IMO the appeal to me from the beginning was that you can literally use anything...barring top heavy truck/SUV. And you need no initial experience or much of anything at all. The one I ran with in Toronto even had lunch provided...
    University of Toronto Formula SAE Alumni 2003-2007
    Formula Student Championship 2003, 2005, 2006
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  6. #666
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    Come on, you don't even need to racing; when driving from A to B just try to find the route with the most corners and enjoy yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kitdy View Post
    I have neither the time, money, nor press credentials to drive the scores of cars I would have to to make a truly informed decision, so I have to make informed decisions based on what I read, and what I see.
    Sure you can get access through a friend or a family member to an old car. You don't even need to drive something special or spectacular, just go old.

    Best or worse, as well as good or bad, is something you have to assess on case by case basis but as a general rule old car they are more mechanical and you feel more involved.

    I like that feeling, but on a day to day basis is hard to say no to modern-day comforts, performance, reliability, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by henk4 View Post
    driving is not about being fast. Racing may be but not driving. But I can in a certain way relate to what you said. My current C5 has long been replaced by a newer model, of which the estate version brings 100 kg more on the scale and luggage space is 100 liters less. Journos praised the improvement in the driving experience. Yet I am reluctant to go for this model, because of the things I mentioned. I have not even driven it although there is aversion with a 240BHP V6 diesel. The current model will be phased out in a few years and then the next model (if ever there will be one) will be built on a Peugeot platform which is not suitable (cost-wise) for Citroen's unique selling point, the hydropnematic suspension, so it is no longer a Citroen. For the time being I have decided to keep on running my old mount for some years at least.
    I've driven relatively recently the 240bhp V6-engined C5 and you should definitely buy one. The gearbox's programming is slightly off, but other than that it is rather good. It's also refreshing to drive something that isn't stupidly stiff and uncomfortable, but it also goes round corners rather well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kitdy View Post
    I'm sure the ride of your C5 is something I can get behind. Driving a vast selection of vehicles at M-B really made me appreciate the benefits of a comfortable and yet poised ride, along with a quality interior filled with wonderful tactful materials, as well as extremely wary of luxury car service costs, depreciation, and high monthly leasing costs.

    Something like a kart or track car lies on the opposite edge of the spectrum, and that is what appeals to me. Don't get me wrong: I like driving. It has been my job, part or full time for something like 10 years now, and there is a reason for that. Driving in the city or highway for long periods of time do not phase me, most particularly so when the roads are quieter. However, I don't like monthly payments, gas prices, or insurance premiums, so ideally when I enter the workplace, I'll work where I don't need to use a car. Toronto's core is becoming ever more friendly residents who do not have cars. Land prices and traffic in the GTA are expensive enough to make the tradeoffs between suburban and urban life and commuting via car vs another method complex.

    I would not mind having a dedicated track toy, be it a kart or some kind of older purist sportscar, because as you mentioned, driving is not about being fast; but racing is, and racing is fun.

    Our little Mazda is fun(ish), but jerking around potholes, sewage covers, and streetcar tracks in the downtown core (or even major subruban surface street arteries) makes something like a hydropneumatic suspension equipped car with great leather seats and an amazing soundsystem and smartphone interface desirable, and something like a Subaru WRX more distasteful. Also it is crap weather for here 6 months of the year. Maybe when it comes time to settle down and start a family a suburban house, it will be fun to have with powerful but lightly sprung AWD wagon on high profile tires.

    I try to not fall into the potholes of "rose-tinted-glassesism," nor the recency effect/techno-utopianism, but it is hard. My ideal car would likely be a psychotic hybrid of classic analogue driver inputs, instrumental simplicity, style, and lightness, and modern interior quality, reliability, power, economy, sound system, and ride.
    If I've learnt something it is that balance is key, especially if you have only one car. And even if you are really serious about driving a car with a very hard suspension can be a nightmare on a bumpy road, wheels losing contact with the road, and all.

    Sometimes a stiff suspension just creates an illusion of sportiness; it's much more important to have a good suspension design and then have something a little bit softer and more compliant.
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
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  7. #667
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    Come on, you don't even need to racing; when driving from A to B just try to find the route with the most corners and enjoy yourself.
    Look at a map of Toronto, and point out to me the curvy roads. You can even replace the word "Toronto" with the entirety of "Souterhn Ontario".

    I drove a jam packed diesel i40 wagon in the Scottish Highlands last year and that proved to me (as someone who drives in a rectilinear road system all the time) that the road matters more than the car. If I were to have access to beautiful European roads all the time the car, I would be more discerning about the car I drove on said roads. Driving that eminently utilitarian i40 (seriously a dope whip) in the Highlands may be more enjoyable than driving an AMG here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    Sometimes a stiff suspension just creates an illusion of sportiness; it's much more important to have a good suspension design and then have something a little bit softer and more compliant.
    Yeah, this is a thing. Low profile tires and a stiff ride do not a good suspension make. The 650S can apparently glide over imperfections in the road comfortably. Can a CLA45?

  8. #668
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitdy View Post
    Look at a map of Toronto, and point out to me the curvy roads. You can even replace the word "Toronto" with the entirety of "Souterhn Ontario".
    I have attached what I have seen.

    Oh god.

    I'm sorry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kitdy View Post
    I drove a jam packed diesel i40 wagon in the Scottish Highlands last year and that proved to me (as someone who drives in a rectilinear road system all the time) that the road matters more than the car. If I were to have access to beautiful European roads all the time the car, I would be more discerning about the car I drove on said roads. Driving that eminently utilitarian i40 (seriously a dope whip) in the Highlands may be more enjoyable than driving an AMG here.
    You may have a point here, to us handling matters because we have corners, but maybe if we didn't have corners we wouldn't care that much about handling, driving or the car we used?


    Quote Originally Posted by Kitdy View Post
    Yeah, this is a thing. Low profile tires and a stiff ride do not a good suspension make. The 650S can apparently glide over imperfections in the road comfortably. Can a CLA45?
    Even the A220 CDI can't ride.

    Or handle.
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    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
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  9. #669
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    Yeah the lack of road thing is a bummer for Michigan AND Ontario. The closest nice road from where I am is probably minimum 1.5 hours(and thats MAYBE 10 corners), to at least 4 hours away in SE Ohio.
    University of Toronto Formula SAE Alumni 2003-2007
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  10. #670
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    I have attached what I have seen.

    Oh god.

    I'm sorry.

    You may have a point here, to us handling matters because we have corners, but maybe if we didn't have corners we wouldn't care that much about handling, driving or the car we used?



    Even the A220 CDI can't ride.

    Or handle.
    In past you have pointed out that the surface street structure of Europe vs North America is a prominent point of differentiation in both mainstream and enthusiast cars in those two markets. I would agree. It is disappointing, and something probably not spoken enough about in the press here. There aren't too many crazy fun roads per square kilometre over here as there is there.

    Clearly a lot of our enthusiast car culture hearkens back to stop light dragging in small towns and suburbs in the post war boom and muscle car era.

    Have you spent significant time driving in North America?

    Quote Originally Posted by RacingManiac View Post
    Yeah the lack of road thing is a bummer for Michigan AND Ontario. The closest nice road from where I am is probably minimum 1.5 hours(and thats MAYBE 10 corners), to at least 4 hours away in SE Ohio.
    I can understand why you hit the Tail of the Dragon when that's the case. On the plus side, y'all got a lot of highways through the city if you ever need to go there or cross the border. I think every single road in Toronto is under construction right now and the major downtown highway is reduced in lanes. Imma drop some local stuff here for RM, but I was kinda mulling this discussion over in my head as I decided to take the DVP back home tonight instead of my usual route. The DVP/Bayview extension are about as fun roads as you have here.

    There is some website that lists some interesting Ontario roads, but they are both short in length and far afield as I recall.

    Have you spent significant time driving outside North America?

    Even in my very limited time in "Europe" (Scotland, and briefly, England) the driving, but specifically, the roads just blow you away. Even in small towns all the roads creak back and forth and there are roundabouts everywhere. I would genuinely be happy every single time I got behind the wheel, both in the i40 and previous to that the Insignia. It would put a smile on my face. Even a 10 minute drive would be something to look forward to, and zagging up the coast or over the glens to distilleries white kunckled driving like a crazy local in a big boaty low redlining diesel wagon was absolutely exhilarating. Farmers would be caning ancient LR Defenders down tiny brick wall lined roads and you'd feel obliged to drive faster and faster to keep up and to stop the car behind from getting pissed!

    At night, I might drive literally (really literally here, not figuratively literally) 5 minutes and be outside the town on tiny deserted dark A and B roads along the east coast of Scotland. Everything felt like my own personal special stage. The whole philosophy of driving changes in that situation. The ability to go out for a short fun jaunt is so at odds with the reality most of us live in here in North America; y'all Euros don't always know how nice you have it. Even in major urban centres, these smaller rural roads are fairly accessible to many of you.

    If I want to drive on a rural road, it might take me 30 mins to 1 hour to get outta sight, and then I just drive in a dead straight line on a two lane highway endlessly flanked by farms and flatness. There are neither turns nor topography, but there is an 80km/h speed limit that drops to 50 in small towns, tractor-trailers slowing you, and tractors slowing you even more.

    Gah I want to go back over and have some damn fish and chips and rent a Fiesta ST now.
    Last edited by Kitdy; 10-09-2014 at 09:29 PM.

  11. #671
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    Indeed the landscape of our continents and socio-economic conditions do influence our cars and make them different as a result.

    I've been to America twice, but I haven't driven there, so I guess I should pay a visit and see what's what. I anyway don't think it's all doom gloom there; speed is fun, even if it is just in straight line, and it is undeniable you've git the upper hand in that. Also being able to choose something that has more than 4 cylinders is appealing.

    Finally, a word of caution here. While it is true that there are lots of great driving roads within spiting distance here, and that eventually and depending where are you going you will be forced to drive on them, there are also lots of boring commutes. So it's not all fun a and games!
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
    Visca Catalunya!

  12. #672
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    Nope, I've had some experience driving in the UK but mostly still highway.

    BTW every road near my apartment down here is under construction. My 10 mile commute these days takes 50 mins...
    University of Toronto Formula SAE Alumni 2003-2007
    Formula Student Championship 2003, 2005, 2006
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  13. #673
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    guys, hello. I'm sorry to but in like this, but I need help with this photo. Shot in in Paris at the time of the motorshow (I'm a automotive photographer and journalist) and I was wondering if you have any ideas, which this car is?

    Thank you.

    Ciril


  14. #674
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    Quote Originally Posted by stanep View Post
    guys, hello. I'm sorry to but in like this, but I need help with this photo. Shot in in Paris at the time of the motorshow (I'm a automotive photographer and journalist) and I was wondering if you have any ideas, which this car is?

    Thank you.

    Ciril

    Oldsmobile Cutlass, from the early seventies
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  15. #675
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    I just remembered that Pininfarina is not designing Ferraris anymore. Is that why their design language is terrible now?

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