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  #31  
Old 04-05-2006, 03:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine

erm, you said it .... CHEAP !!!
Hard to get that much power with no hassle for an installation.
It doesn't make it the "best" all round and why so many fanboys end up in "flame wars" abotu it.
Push-rods have their benefits. Specific fuel consumption is one.
GM thanks to push-rods has been getting the best SFC in all segments except compacts. With 200hp Buick v6 getting 30mpg and 400hp vettes getting 27mpg on freeways.
Again, what is the point in SOHC orDOHC engines in trucks? They need 500hp at 2000rpm and not at 20,000rpm. Are you going to race them in some class where you need to wind the motor into twilight zone? The push-rod 'vette derived Vortex v8. Best SFC.
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  #32  
Old 04-05-2006, 03:37 AM
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Matra et Alpine Matra et Alpine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunk
Push-rods have their benefits. Specific fuel consumption is one.
What ?
That has NOTHING to do with the valve drive technology
Quote:
GM thanks to push-rods has been getting the best SFC in all segments except compacts. With 200hp Buick v6 getting 30mpg and 400hp vettes getting 27mpg on freeways.
That's to do with CAPACITY and gearbox. NOTHING to do with vlave drivetrain per-se.
Quote:
Again, what is the point in SOHC orDOHC engines in trucks? They need 500hp at 2000rpm and not at 20,000rpm. Are you going to race them in some class where you need to wind the motor into twilight zone? The push-rod 'vette derived Vortex v8. Best SFC.
COMPRESSION ratio is the major variable that affects SFC.
Power delivery low down for trucks is spot on, needs LOTS of torque to move heavy weight easily.
But once it's into a car the advantage isnt' as clear.
OHCs in trucks will come into it's own now that better emissions are requred and more complex and variable timing is needed. Doing that in the head is "easier" -- because the in-block space for a cam is limited.
And if you want GOOD SFC as the prime choice, then go turbo-diesel
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  #33  
Old 04-05-2006, 06:45 AM
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ohc in trucks

Cummins,Cat and Detroit diesel all run ohc in their tractor trailer engine divisions, all are between 12-15 litre 300-600hp and 1650ft/lb of torque and run ohc. Sunk you better phone them up, get them to fire their engineers and get rid of those OHC and install some pushrods in those enginesbecause ohc engines dont make torque, truley you have no idea do you
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  #34  
Old 04-05-2006, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine
Only because your info is biased
And the crap you come up with is not?
I see nothing biased about facts...
Quote:
The RPA and Powertec engines are TINY compared to a monolith like the LS1
195lbs 360hp for the Powertec ... sorry no "comparative" picutres of old tech
V8 versus new tech V8.
Can I get a price? size dimensions? Powerband? Reliability? Maintanence?
Quote:
I agree that the LS1 is a small V8 and that makes it good for many things, but lets keep OBJECTIVE about it ( or do you claim that the LS1 won Le Mans ? )
So NOT the smallest on the market !! Smallest, good for 100,000 miles, no technical knowledge needed to maintain, lots of tuners around, lots of bits avaialble and cheap -- yes
Did you not read? Possibly smallest V8. Im pretty sure, but please name another V8 thats smaller.
Quote:
erm, you said it .... CHEAP !!!
Hard to get that much power with no hassle for an installation.
It doesn't make it the "best" all round and why so many fanboys end up in "flame wars" abotu it.
And the fact that its LIGHTER than their original engine.
Quote:
and thank you for providing another wquote that can be cited as typical fanboy comments.
You KNOW by now that LOTS of folks on UCP have driven the range of vehicle and cars that encompass many engine types and knwo the benefits ( and drawbacks ). Shame that to date you STILL dont' understand that it's your upbringing that makes you so "enginist" -- we shoudl get some KKK hoods for the anti-rev brigade
Opposed to your "ZOMG WE MUST REV HIGH, AND USE DA GEARZ" clan?
Sorry that I like a USABLE powerband, its not my "upbringing", its my logic. Given the choice I rather have a flat (high)torque curve form idle to redline, than a flat (high) torque curve from 6000-8000RPMs.
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  #35  
Old 04-05-2006, 08:12 AM
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McReis McReis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slicks
Given the choice I rather have a flat (high)torque curve form idle to redline, than a flat (high) torque curve from 6000-8000RPMs.
And do you like cars and driving?
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  #36  
Old 04-05-2006, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McReis
And do you like cars and driving?
Do you like turbo lag?
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  #37  
Old 04-05-2006, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slicks
Do you like turbo lag?
One thing has nothing to do with the other. A revvy engine isn't necessarily dead in low revs. My car has enough low end grunt for every urban situation but still has a high-revving character.

I'm not saying you have a wrong opinion. It's just unusual for someone who loves cars and driving. You'd love to have a german TDI engined car then. It can be violent on lower revs and keeps flat all through the rev-band.
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  #38  
Old 04-05-2006, 09:01 AM
SLoppYJeeP SLoppYJeeP is offline
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Ill agree that OVH engines are perfect for diesel and low rpm applications, theres no argument there, The point is the high rpm power of honda engines. Sure a V8 puts out a hefty amount of torque, but the sound and feel of a honda engine screaming at close to 8000 rpm simply can't be beat. And to refocus the argument on honda, if you compared the honda civic or rsx with a more appropriate model then the corvette, say the new cobalt, the honda is still a better made, faster, and better handleing car. (Even with DOHC technology, the cobalt cant rev as high as the honda, and requires forced induction to mactch its horsepower). The fact that you even mention the econo-box honda in the same post as dedicated v-8 engine sports cars is a destimate to the success of the honda car, a car that can get you from point A to B safely, efficiently, and comfortly, but still have some get up and go when you need it.
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  #39  
Old 04-05-2006, 10:30 AM
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Matra et Alpine Matra et Alpine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slicks
And the crap you come up with is not?
I see nothing biased about facts...
oh, dear. We had egg on your face over that kidn of comment in teh past Slicks.
My inputs ARE based on actual first hand ( and occasiaonlly secodn hand form others in club and paddock ).
And to call it "crap" is makign YOU look as stupid as Guibo.
Mine are FACTS. Guibo hasn't a clue abotu what he's reading OR what he's talking abotu throttle control. Reading it in mags is not the same as taking Dingle Dell in a powerful rear engined car adn usgin the throttle to steer it ( and no NOT the stupid "drift" clown stuff ... THAT is easy to look good, we're talkign begin FAST )
Quote:
Can I get a price? size dimensions? Powerband? Reliability? Maintanence?
Ah so like Guibo, NOT reading. You'll notice that I definately give the LS1 the hands up on those last three itmes ( go back and READ rather than knee-jerk ) ZING !!!!!
I only pointed out that the LS1 ins't the SMALLEST
Shame you got your knickers in a twist by believing the lies (marketing twist) of Chevrolet that it HAS to be the best everythign because it has a flag on it ( So DO you think it won Le Mans ???? )
Quote:
Did you not read? Possibly smallest V8. Im pretty sure, but please name another V8 thats smaller.
Sorry, but as was first posted the Powertec !!
man, this is too painful to type, ROFLMA :S
Quote:
And the fact that its LIGHTER than their original engine.
By "their" you mean heavier iron block engines swapping out ?
That's what lighter usually means ( just like was said about the Powertec )
Yeah for sure, not a lot of argument. But is it "better" ? Depends on the rest of the changes made doesn't it.
Quote:
Opposed to your "ZOMG WE MUST REV HIGH, AND USE DA GEARZ" clan?
erm, well if you KNOW anyone who types and thinks like that then I hasten to point that that's not "my clan".
The guys I talk about are on the tracks weekly around the UK and Euroep and on the rally stages. Getting the best all round performance is CRUCIAL to us.
What a silly comment THAT was , wasn't it Slicks .. given that you KNOW my history from previous exchanges !!!
Quote:
Sorry that I like a USABLE powerband, its not my "upbringing", its my logic. Given the choice I rather have a flat (high)torque curve form idle to redline, than a flat (high) torque curve from 6000-8000RPMs.
oh,m dear, now THAT one was done to death a LONG time ago and PROVEN that other solutions actually had a wider usable power band Proven from facts, figures and charts and NOT the ramblings of an over-ejaculated mag reader !!!
BUT I concur that I'd also rather have 3,000 band of revs of usable power than 2,000.
But that's not the reality It's NOT jsut 6000-8000 and I'm NOT going into it again, you can go read throught the DOZENS of posts where I clarfied that with facts.

PS: What cars are you driving that have turbo-lag ? They dont' exist outside of the lunatic STIKKAS fanatics !!! That's a 1980s problem ...... well over here it is, maybe your favourite manufacturer has still to catch up on teh technology





...... and returning to the THREAD !!! Who cares about LS1 anyway
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Last edited by Matra et Alpine; 04-05-2006 at 11:04 AM.
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  #40  
Old 04-05-2006, 11:28 AM
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They make the best motorbikes in the world, they use to dominate F1 time to time, they dominate that Indy racing league, they almost dominate MotoGPX league, they make the most overall reliable cars in the world (next to toyota), they stick to there philosophy of performance- and its good, they continue and always will stay active and present in motorsports for innovation and development- similiar to ferrari but is present outside of F1.

Last edited by zeta; 04-06-2006 at 08:47 AM.
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  #41  
Old 04-05-2006, 12:13 PM
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Slicks Slicks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McReis
One thing has nothing to do with the other. A revvy engine isn't necessarily dead in low revs. My car has enough low end grunt for every urban situation but still has a high-revving character.
Sure, but from my experiences Honda I4s basically make negitive torque at low RPMs.
Quote:
I'm not saying you have a wrong opinion. It's just unusual for someone who loves cars and driving. You'd love to have a german TDI engined car then. It can be violent on lower revs and keeps flat all through the rev-band.
I love to drive in the high RPMs, but when the time comes, I want power anywhere on the tach.
Any of the TDI cars come with RWD?
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  #42  
Old 04-05-2006, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLoppYJeeP
Ill agree that OVH engines are perfect for diesel and low rpm applications, theres no argument there, The point is the high rpm power of honda engines. Sure a V8 puts out a hefty amount of torque, but the sound and feel of a honda engine screaming at close to 8000 rpm simply can't be beat.
The sound of a Honda I4 at any RPM is pretty much like a weedwaker on steroids. Its annoying if anything.
The S2000 is one of the better sounding I4s, but that isnt saying much. The feel isnt anything different than any other economy car, except the fact it only moves above 6000PRMs.
This is a nice sounding 4 banger:
http://videos.streetfire.net/categor...516EB6F079.htm
Notice the gurgle and no farty/buzzy noises?
Quote:
And to refocus the argument on honda, if you compared the honda civic or rsx with a more appropriate model then the corvette, say the new cobalt, the honda is still a better made, faster, and better handleing car. (Even with DOHC technology, the cobalt cant rev as high as the honda, and requires forced induction to mactch its horsepower).
Can you say ricer argument?
No ones comparing a Corvette to anything, comparing engines(which are found in more than just the vette) are not comparing cars.
From what Ive seen the Cobalt SS will hold its own handling wise.
And who said chevy wanted to make the Cobalt's I4 high revving?
It uses forced induction for the POWERBAND, something Hondafanboys seem to ignore. I MUCH rather have the supercharged ecotech than a peaky Honda I4. (although on paper the Honda may seem "more high tech.")
Quote:
The fact that you even mention the econo-box honda in the same post as dedicated v-8 engine sports cars is a destimate to the success of the honda car, a car that can get you from point A to B safely, efficiently, and comfortly, but still have some get up and go when you need it.
Hondas F20 isnt exactly an economy 4 cylinder.
And 16-17 second 1/4 mile times are about as much "get up and go" as your every day minivan, truck or SUV...
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  #43  
Old 04-05-2006, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slicks
Sure, but from my experiences Honda I4s basically make negitive torque at low RPMs.

I love to drive in the high RPMs, but when the time comes, I want power anywhere on the tach.
Any of the TDI cars come with RWD?
all BMWs
All Mercedes
The Jaguar s-type and XJ
the Audi R10

and of course all these engines are DOHC 4-valves and don't rev higher than 5000......
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  #44  
Old 04-05-2006, 01:06 PM
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KnifeEdge_2K1 KnifeEdge_2K1 is offline
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where's the logic in comparing a v8 that puts out 400 hp to an I4 that does 240 ?? they arnt made to be used in the same type of vehicle or the same class

with your logic it'd make sense to compare a 650cc dirt bike engine with the friggin 16 litre bugatti quad turbo, cuz you're "just comparing engines"

there's nothing about vtec that gives LOW torque at low rpms, it gives the same amount of torque at a given rpm as any other engine of the same size that;s naturally aspirated, and much higher power with more radical cam grinds at the top end, that's what vtec was made for, period.
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  #45  
Old 04-05-2006, 01:18 PM
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Matra et Alpine Matra et Alpine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slicks
Can you say ricer argument?
Well you brought in the old "weed whacker" nonsense !!

I think someone on UCP in a post said about seeing the other side ??



Returning to the THREAD ......

Honda excel at picking the right solution for the market, be that I4, V8 or diesel
You wont' go wrong chosing one !!!


oh and just for Slick .... in the years that Honda raced the NSX and the Corvettes were at Le Mans .... GUESS WHICH CAR FINISHED AHEAD
( and the FIRST year the NSX was beaten by the Alpine A610 !!! )
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Last edited by Matra et Alpine; 04-05-2006 at 01:57 PM.
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