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  #241  
Old 03-18-2013, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Magnum9987 View Post
Was it rough running?
Yeah, pretty rough.
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  #242  
Old 03-18-2013, 02:04 PM
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9-3 Viggen. Don't remember the year. The same guy that owns it is in love with SAABs, hes owned several, tuned and crashed one, all with five pots.
Factory 9-3 Viggens had a 2.3 litre turbocharged four cylinder engine.
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  #243  
Old 03-18-2013, 02:18 PM
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Factory 9-3 Viggens had a 2.3 litre turbocharged four cylinder engine.
I don't know if he swapped in a five cylinder or not, all I know is that I saw a 5 cylinder under his hood.
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  #244  
Old 03-21-2013, 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted by culver View Post
Until gas was over $2/gallon diesels made very little sense in the US.
They still won't. - All that will happen is the Government will increase fuel tax to match your reduced consumption. You'll not pay less for long because politicians need those tax dollars to spend on [insert current trendy waste of time & money here] and suppressing any freedom we have left.

I bought a diesel when prices were c£0.95 / litre. 5 years later it's more like £1.45.

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Even the best of the Euro diesels were just 'as good as' but never better than a gas engine in basically everything but mileage.
Just no. They are heavier, more complicated, have higher levels of NVH, sound awful, have poor throttle response and need more maintenance than the NA petrols we were all using a few years ago. The only areas they are ahead in is torque (because turbo) and economy / CO2.

Take away the turbocharger and diesels are hopeless in normal cars. - Compare VW's SDI Golf Mk5 to their 2.0FSI (both engines are naturally aspirated) for an example. The FSI has twice the power (150ps vs 75), better throttle response, a nicer power / torque curve and only loses out on economy.

The problem with turbochargers, particulate filters, direct injectors etc. is that they do go wrong...and when they do, all your economy savings are wiped-out. My Dad's just had to pay out ~£1,500 after the DPF system on his Mini failed. - If he wasn't doing 45,000 miles per annum (driving instructor), there's no way he'd choose diesel. It really is a false economy in most cases; especially when sheeple here buy a £25,000 Golf TDi and then only do 8,000 miles per year.

When I bought the C4, it made sense...now however, my partner only does short urban journeys and it's a liability I can't wait to get rid of (hopefully before the turbo failure that's common on these cars happens). We're thinking about something like a Mini Cooper or Suzuki Swift Sport (both NA petrols) but can't afford to change yet (mostly due to the Citroen's awful residual values).

Most importantly as a car enthusiast though: I never have a sudden urge to go for a drive in the "ecobox". - The straight six, RWD, manual BMW with a proper howl and maximum power 400 rpm off the redline however...
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  #245  
Old 03-21-2013, 04:44 PM
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Diesels are very much a victim of their circumstances. Really, When you get down to the basics of engine technology, the only difference between a diesel and a petrol engine is the fuel system. Old diesel engines running mechanical injection would last forever. All of them were dramatically overbuilt, and didn't have computers and fancy injectors that went wrong, never mind the diesel particulate filters or EGR systems. But our modern times call for them to be more frugal, more compact and lighter, so the reliability suffers, the complexity is multiplied, and sure the weight is reduced, but again, at the cost of durability. I think given more time, the diesel engine could be developed to be the equal of the petrol engine.
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  #246  
Old 03-21-2013, 04:58 PM
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I'd sooner have diesel than hybrid. Call me old-fashioned if you must.
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  #247  
Old 03-21-2013, 05:22 PM
mbugattic9 mbugattic9 is offline
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Diesel Cars

I think diesel cars in america engines have evolved (as in the case of Audi) and have made significant progress and less pollution to the environment as the Mercedes-Benz C-Class, G-Class, ML, S Class, or the same AMG models
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  #248  
Old 03-21-2013, 05:24 PM
mbugattic9 mbugattic9 is offline
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and in the same BMW 3 Series, 5 Series, 6 Series, 7 Series, X Series or M Series
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  #249  
Old 03-21-2013, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Clivey View Post
They still won't. - All that will happen is the Government will increase fuel tax to match your reduced consumption. You'll not pay less for long because politicians need those tax dollars to spend on [insert current trendy waste of time & money here] and suppressing any freedom we have left.

I bought a diesel when prices were c£0.95 / litre. 5 years later it's more like £1.45.
Be thankful you have tax revenue. Have you seen Michigan or Alabama?!
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  #250  
Old 03-22-2013, 12:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum9987 View Post
Diesels are very much a victim of their circumstances. Really, When you get down to the basics of engine technology, the only difference between a diesel and a petrol engine is the fuel system. Old diesel engines running mechanical injection would last forever. All of them were dramatically overbuilt, and didn't have computers and fancy injectors that went wrong, never mind the diesel particulate filters or EGR systems. But our modern times call for them to be more frugal, more compact and lighter, so the reliability suffers, the complexity is multiplied, and sure the weight is reduced, but again, at the cost of durability. I think given more time, the diesel engine could be developed to be the equal of the petrol engine.
I thinki it will be the other way round, petrol engines will start to include more and more lessons in technology that were first developed in diesel engine.
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I'd sooner have diesel than hybrid. Call me old-fashioned if you must.
Try finding a hybrid that can cruise at 170km/h (105mph) and still return 6,6l/100km (43mpg UK / 36mpg US). And it wasn't even a particularly modern engine or a specially optimised car...
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  #251  
Old 03-22-2013, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Magnum9987 View Post
Diesels are very much a victim of their circumstances. Really, When you get down to the basics of engine technology, the only difference between a diesel and a petrol engine is the fuel system. Old diesel engines running mechanical injection would last forever. All of them were dramatically overbuilt, and didn't have computers and fancy injectors that went wrong, never mind the diesel particulate filters or EGR systems. But our modern times call for them to be more frugal, more compact and lighter, so the reliability suffers, the complexity is multiplied, and sure the weight is reduced, but again, at the cost of durability.
Correct. In addition, more complexity = more expense. A new VW Golf 2.0TDI (c150 HP) is c£25,000 / $38,000 USD here and generally diesels are £'000s more than their petrol equivalents. You have to be doing a lot of miles to make the money back via reduced fuel costs...and then that's IF it doesn't suffer an expensive failure that wipes-out those savings.

I have to call as I see...and this diesel hysteria has a strong whiff of 'Emperor's New Clothes' about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum9987 View Post
I think given more time, the diesel engine could be developed to be the equal of the petrol engine.
In actuality, diesel engine technology has seen more investment in recent years than petrol. - In fact, the latest turbo petrols are closing the gap in terms of economy etc.

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Originally Posted by jcp123 View Post
I'd sooner have diesel than hybrid. Call me old-fashioned if you must.
According to the report by Exxon Mobil, diesel hybrids are set to make-up the majority of new cars on the world's roads c2040. - They'll probably be at least partially self-driving by then as well...so enjoy driving whilst you can!

It seems a classic case of "the grass is always greener". - I wish I could afford to drive a big displacement RWD coupé. - A Mustang 5.0, for example, is not a practical proposition as a daily driver here due to fuel costs. Once you're forced into driving asthmatic forced induction diesels by costs and legislation, it doesn't take long for the novelty to wear off, trust me.

Actually wanting them is IMHO like turkeys voting for Christmas.

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Be thankful you have tax revenue. Have you seen Michigan or Alabama?!
It's about balance and my country (together with the rest of Europe) is currently leaning too far to the left. Tax and squander, tax and squander...

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Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
Try finding a hybrid that can cruise at 170km/h (105mph) and still return 6,6l/100km (43mpg UK / 36mpg US). And it wasn't even a particularly modern engine or a specially optimised car...
105mph! That's a pipe dream with this killjoy, car hating communist country. Average speed cameras on our Motorways (limit: 50mph for long stretches) see to that. - Idiots here seem to think the Earth will implode if you hit three figures...just like they thought people would suffocate on trains (because apparently they wouldn't be capable of breathing air above a certain speed) when they came along...


...oh wait.
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  #252  
Old 03-22-2013, 03:31 PM
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It's about balance and my country (together with the rest of Europe) is currently leaning too far to the left. Tax and squander, tax and squander...
Have you seen the Nordic countries and Canada?!
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  #253  
Old 03-22-2013, 04:36 PM
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Nordic countries don't squander it. Go look at Swedish stats on pretty much anything about the people
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  #254  
Old 03-22-2013, 04:37 PM
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Have you seen the Nordic countries and Canada?!
When I say "Europe"; I'm primarily talking about France, Spain, Holland, Germany. What specifically were you referring to?
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  #255  
Old 03-22-2013, 06:19 PM
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When I say "Europe"; I'm primarily talking about France, Spain, Holland, Germany. What specifically were you referring to?
All of those countries are moderate right wing, fully fledged neoliberal capitalist countries, with hints of Scandanavian welfare capitalism. Not all that different from Canada, and to be frank, only a few pegs left of the US federal government economically.

The main difference is that individual liberties are higher in Europe than in the US where being gay is illegal and drugs are satanic.

Capital commands all countries of economic significance now. It's harder to release workers in Europe too.
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