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  #1  
Old 12-05-2006, 10:23 PM
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if americans like torque, why not buy diesel engined cars?

i hear you get quite a bit of low end grunt these days from a decently sized turbodiesel.
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Old 12-05-2006, 10:25 PM
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Because the mental picture of dirty, smelly, polluting dump trucks and late-70's diesels are stuck in the buying public's mind.

Add to that Kalifornia's Nazi-like CARB, and the 4 other states (and 5 others considering adopting it), and you have cars that could potentially not be sold in 1/5 of the states. Mainly the ones where the most cars are sold.
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Old 12-05-2006, 10:26 PM
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This is why I'm going to invest in go fast parts for my beetle tdi. 500ftlbs here i come.
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Old 12-05-2006, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiggs
Add to that Kalifornia's Nazi-like CARB, and the 4 other states (and 5 others considering adopting it), and you have cars that could potentially not be sold in 1/5 of the states. Mainly the ones where the most cars are sold.
What's CARB?
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Old 12-05-2006, 10:40 PM
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What's CARB?
California Air Resources Board.
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Old 12-05-2006, 10:45 PM
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Old 12-05-2006, 11:42 PM
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Diesel is now more profitable than Gasoline, it's making its way back now.
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Old 12-06-2006, 12:35 AM
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As for the CARB board they should make petrol engines unsellable They produce more sh!t out of the exhaust in the latest Euro5 types
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  #9  
Old 12-06-2006, 01:36 AM
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prejudice
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Old 12-06-2006, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
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Indeed, but wait till Mercedes and Volkswagen start making Bluetec diesels, and things might change.
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Old 12-06-2006, 09:03 AM
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IMO it all depends on the energy policy of each country.

The US energy policy favours investments on electric motors and Hydrogen consumption. The rationale behind this is, in the long term to form a Hydrogen based economy. Internal combustion engines will be largely replaced by electric motors or fuel cells that are consuming Hydrogen. Hydrogen will be produced in Nuclear plants.

That's why the US legislation (CARB included) favors the use of hybrids instead of diesels. Diesels emit large quantities of NOx, which are not acceptable by CARB regulations.

Europe, on the other hand does not seem to adopt this plan yet. The European manufacturers have invested heavily on Diesel technology (common rail Diesels, piezo-electric injectors etc, BlueTec) because there was room in the European legislation to do so. The laws are not that strict as far as NOx are concerned.

So, the type of engine that is used on each country is largely dependent on the direction taken by its regulatory bodies.
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Old 12-06-2006, 09:05 AM
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Actually, more Americans are sold on horsepower than torque, sadly. That's one of the main reasons the Mustang and Corvette are so successful. They don't understand how horsepower works. They also don't know that torque is what they need for everyday driving.
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  #13  
Old 12-06-2006, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightweight
IMO it all depends on the energy policy of each country.

The US energy policy favours investments on electric motors and Hydrogen consumption. The rationale behind this is, in the long term to form a Hydrogen based economy. Internal combustion engines will be largely replaced by electric motors or fuel cells that are consuming Hydrogen. Hydrogen will be produced in Nuclear plants.

That's why the US legislation (CARB included) favors the use of hybrids instead of diesels. Diesels emit large quantities of NOx, which are not acceptable by CARB regulations.

Europe, on the other hand does not seem to adopt this plan yet. The European manufacturers have invested heavily on Diesel technology (common rail Diesels, piezo-electric injectors etc, BlueTec) because there was room in the European legislation to do so. The laws are not that strict as far as NOx are concerned.

So, the type of engine that is used on each country is largely dependent on the direction taken by its regulatory bodies.
http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/light.html

this is an interesting site and if you take some time to check on the standards for the various countries, you may even notice that the California requirement for Nox from passenger diesel cars is the same as the Euro 5 norm, (0.2 gram, except that in California it is per mile, while in Europe per km). Toyota has been applying Nox converters already.

I really doubt that there is a consistent US Gvt energy policy, aiming at stimulating hybrids. The only reason why they may want to stimulate that now is to protect their own industry, having seen the success of Toyota...
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  #14  
Old 12-06-2006, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiggs
Because the mental picture of dirty, smelly, polluting dump trucks and late-70's diesels are stuck in the buying public's mind.

Add to that Kalifornia's Nazi-like CARB, and the 4 other states (and 5 others considering adopting it), and you have cars that could potentially not be sold in 1/5 of the states. Mainly the ones where the most cars are sold.
As an American I absolutely agree. We should by more diesel cars and suvs especially now that diesels are cleaner then they ever have been. Unfortunately as Quiggs mentions the stereotypical diesel image in the US is the smoky, smelly, and slow diesels of old.

Another reason is that the US has the same standards for cars with diesels and petrol whereas in Europe there are separate standards for the two fuels (correct me if I am wrong). Furthermore the CO2/km ratings of diesels are less then comparable gas/petrol engines so why is the EPA and CARB boards so stupid as to think that diesels are worse for the environment? Even the Mercedes E320 Blutec diesel that is finally being sold in the US still doesnt meet the emissions requirements of 5 states even though the comparable E350 consumes more fuel and spews out more CO2 (although less NOx gases).

Since Americans seem to have a taste for large SUVs and trucks a complete switch to diesel in large vehicles would partly solve fuel efficiency problems in this sector.

In general we have stupid emissions laws that are counterproductive and don't encourage manufacturers to sell diesel passenger cars and trucks in the US.
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  #15  
Old 12-06-2006, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRR
Since Americans seem to have a taste for large SUVs and trucks a complete switch to diesel in large vehicles would partly solve fuel efficiency problems in this sector.

In general we have stupid emissions laws that are counterproductive and don't encourage manufacturers to sell diesel passenger cars and trucks in the US.
Ford is actually addressing this by making a Diesel F150 option on the next gen. It's not a total fix, but it is a start.
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The things we do for girls who won't sleep with us.

Patrick says:
dads is too long so it wont fit
so i took hers out
and put mine in
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