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Thread: Ferrari Tire Issues...

  1. #1
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    Ferrari Tire Issues...

    I have read two comparison tests now involving the zr-1 and the Ferarri 612 in both of these articles the ferrari has either blown or severely damaged its tires during the high speed run. What's the deal with the tires? Any word around ferrari circles?

    It seems silly to me to have a car that costs nearly half a million dollars that blows its tires when pushed near its limit, not only is it very "un ferrari" of them, but its also dangerous. A blowout at 200mph is bad for business in the life expectancy department.
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    I don't know if there is actually an issue or if it's something related to an unappropriated use of the car/tires, but I'll ask my mate as soon as I'll be back in Modena. perhaps the weight of the car should be taken into count.
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    It just seems odd for ferrari to make that kind of mistake. I would expect that kind of thing more from GM than from Ferrari.
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    Quote Originally Posted by roosterjuicer View Post
    I have read two comparison tests now involving the zr-1 and the Ferarri 612 in both of these articles the ferrari has either blown or severely damaged its tires during the high speed run. What's the deal with the tires? Any word around ferrari circles?

    It seems silly to me to have a car that costs nearly half a million dollars that blows its tires when pushed near its limit, not only is it very "un ferrari" of them, but its also dangerous. A blowout at 200mph is bad for business in the life expectancy department.
    I was thinking the same thing, at least from the two motor trend tests they had back in back to back months. Both times the 599 blew one of it's rear tires at speeds close to or above 200 mph.
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    perhaps another factor to take into count is the different kind of tires available between North America and Europe, that could be the source of the mistake, if there is one that is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead View Post
    perhaps another factor to take into count is the different kind of tires available between North America and Europe, that could be the source of the mistake, if there is one that is.
    Got both issues in front of me now.

    Quote Originally Posted by January 2009 Motor Trend ZR-1 vs 599

    In a modern performance car, on the autobahn or a closed road, Grandma could hit 120 mph without fogging up her spectacles. She might even grin. But 200 mph ... that's a different speed galaxy.

    As velocity increases, especially nearing the Big Two, challenges, stresses, and risks magnify exponentially. A bump in the road at 100 mph becomes a chasm at 200. A wayward field mouse looms like a hippo in your path. Wind gusts are invisible giants attempting to thwack your car into the next county. Tires heat up dramatically, especially the outside two in any curve, especially if they're bearing the brunt of the crushing downward g loads on banking. And when they get too hot, as the 599's left-front Pirelli did after just a couple of high-speed laps, they simply come apart.

    This is when your Nomex underpants become squishy.

    We took every possible precaution before gunning these megacars for Vmax. First, we hired a pro shoe: Indy-experienced Didier Theys, who is also well familiar with more than 250 mph on the Mulsanne Straight at Le Mans. We inspected all tires and carefully checked pressures. Our test circuit was big -five miles around- and, more important, closed. An ambulance and fire-rescue team stood by during all laps, with spotters on radios around the circuit.

    Yet still we needed luck. When something goes wrong at nearly 200 mph, think "airplane crash." It was that thought, as we celebrated over dinner afterward, that undoudtedly inspired the extra round of drinks.

    Tires F/R: 245/35ZR20 95Y; 305/35ZR20 104Y Pirelli P-Zero

    [taken from 200 MPH: DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME] excerpt

    Quote Originally Posted by February 2009 Motor Trend War of the Worlds

    Next up: Ferrari 599 GTB. Coming off of the oval's Turn Four, Theys was visibly carrying more speed than in the ZR1. "The Ferrari is so planted," Theys said later (he credits the downforce of the 599's elegant rear diffuser for the aiding in stability). Yet barely into his third lap, They's voice came over our radio network. "Pirelli is gone," he said calmly. "I am coming in."

    A minute later, the 599 rolled into the pits, an ugly smear of rubber marring its left flank. The left-front tire -bearing the brunt of the load on the clockwise track- had delaminated in the banking at more than 190 mph.
    The outside edge of the tread looked like it had been gnawed on by a great white. Fortunately, Theys skill helped prevent disaster.

    Tires F/R: 245/35ZR20 95Y; 305/35ZR20 104Y Pirelli P-Zero

    [Taken from article]
    My mistake, it was the left front both times at a clockwise track. Also to note, the GT-R blew a left-rear tire in the same February 2009 test that practically ripped off the quarter panel.

    599 GTB Fiorano Tires as listed on Ferrari international website.

    Front: 245/40 19"
    Rear: 305/35 20"
    (Front Optional: 245/35 20")

    I assume the above are Pirelli P-Zero

    Looks as if the tested 599 had the optional 20" front tire. Not sure if this plays a major role in the high-speed blowout, but I guess it could play a big culprit.

    Detective work complete
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockefella View Post
    Got both issues in front of me now.






    My mistake, it was the left front both times at a clockwise track. Also to note, the GT-R blew a left-rear tire in the same February 2009 test that practically ripped off the quarter panel.

    599 GTB Fiorano Tires as listed on Ferrari international website.

    Front: 245/40 19"
    Rear: 305/35 20"
    (Front Optional: 245/35 20")

    I assume the above are Pirelli P-Zero

    Looks as if the tested 599 had the optional 20" front tire. Not sure if this plays a major role in the high-speed blowout, but I guess it could play a big culprit.

    Detective work complete
    excellent work.

    What I meant was that the very same type of tire, as the Pirelli P-Zero for example, have a different mixture of rubber if it's made for the US or EU, due to different climate, asphalt and driving condition/habits I suppose.
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    first of all, my mistake i meant the 599 i dunno why i said 612 other than their similar looks...no excuse either way.

    I can see the excuse nissan has for blowing tires...its a much cheaper car that has super car performance without the price, they had to cut costs somewhere. but i still think ferrari has no excuse for that.
    A woman goes to the doctor to figure out why she is having breathing problems...The doctor tells her she is overweight. She says she wants a second opinion...the doctor says, "your ugly".

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    Quote Originally Posted by roosterjuicer View Post
    first of all, my mistake i meant the 599 i dunno why i said 612 other than their similar looks...no excuse either way.

    I can see the excuse nissan has for blowing tires...its a much cheaper car that has super car performance without the price, they had to cut costs somewhere. but i still think ferrari has no excuse for that.
    I actually think the GT-R is as if not more expensive than a Ferrari, even a 599 GTB.
    it's like the old 959. a certain level of technology or performance can't be achieved without a certain level of costs. but that doesn't mean that the final price of the car has to show it.
    I think the GT-R is purposedly under priced by Nissan for mainly two reasons:
    - being a GT-R it can be too much expensive, or at that point some people would directly switch to something more famous or exotic. but if you still want to achieve astonishing performance, you have to accept to gain just a few money from each car, counting on the overall sale figure to made a real profit

    - being that fast and that cheap it's basically a huge and very effective ad campaign. Nissan showed to have not only the money and the technology, but also the capability to create something unexpected. again, pricing the car at a too high level would ruin a part of that ad campaign.
    NASA could fix the Shuttle so to have four tires and a steering wheels, and being even an astonishing car, but with the money it would cost, it wouldn't be that great achievement.

    finally, even if Ferrari has a much higher and more sophisticated image, I wouldn't say it has no excuse. comparing the budget and the technology available at both factories, I know where to expect defects.
    not saying a delaminated tire is something accepted.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead View Post
    I actually think the GT-R is as if not more expensive than a Ferrari, even a 599 GTB.
    it's like the old 959. a certain level of technology or performance can't be achieved without a certain level of costs. but that doesn't mean that the final price of the car has to show it.
    I think the GT-R is purposedly under priced by Nissan for mainly two reasons:
    - being a GT-R it can be too much expensive, or at that point some people would directly switch to something more famous or exotic. but if you still want to achieve astonishing performance, you have to accept to gain just a few money from each car, counting on the overall sale figure to made a real profit

    - being that fast and that cheap it's basically a huge and very effective ad campaign. Nissan showed to have not only the money and the technology, but also the capability to create something unexpected. again, pricing the car at a too high level would ruin a part of that ad campaign.
    NASA could fix the Shuttle so to have four tires and a steering wheels, and being even an astonishing car, but with the money it would cost, it wouldn't be that great achievement.

    finally, even if Ferrari has a much higher and more sophisticated image, I wouldn't say it has no excuse. comparing the budget and the technology available at both factories, I know where to expect defects.
    not saying a delaminated tire is something accepted.
    That's actually a really intriguing theory.

    Back on the topic of the 599 vs ZR1. I wonder how wickedly fast the ZR1 could get up to speed if it had half the technology the Ferrari has in it. I mean, to have such close 0-60 times, and the Ferrari is at a significant power AND weight disadvantage means there is some serious electronic trickery going on in that ECU and differential. If the ZR1 had that I'm sure It could go much, much quicker.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes.Coleman View Post
    That's actually a really intriguing theory.

    Back on the topic of the 599 vs ZR1. I wonder how wickedly fast the ZR1 could get up to speed if it had half the technology the Ferrari has in it. I mean, to have such close 0-60 times, and the Ferrari is at a significant power AND weight disadvantage means there is some serious electronic trickery going on in that ECU and differential. If the ZR1 had that I'm sure It could go much, much quicker.
    I think it's not just about that.
    the ZR1 is still based on the C6 which is a perfomance car, but pretty much oriented to everyday drive so very user friendly. a condition the 599 doesn't have to face (even if that's not so true as it could have been for its predecessors from Maranello).
    obviously, that's going to make some differences between the two cars, which both have as you said similar specs and performance on the sheet, but arrived to that from two very different ways.
    this perhaps makes the ZR1 an even better achievement for Corvette (GM), being so basilar and still effective is something a lot of car makers are forgetting how to do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes.Coleman View Post
    Back on the topic of the 599 vs ZR1. I wonder how wickedly fast the ZR1 could get up to speed if it had half the technology the Ferrari has in it. I mean, to have such close 0-60 times, and the Ferrari is at a significant power AND weight disadvantage means there is some serious electronic trickery going on in that ECU and differential. If the ZR1 had that I'm sure It could go much, much quicker.
    0-60 times and 1/4 mile times are about even but look at the zr-1's trap speed at the end of the 1/4...its usually quite a bit faster than the ferrari, obviously its got some traction issues.

    anyone have any idea how much the ferrari benefits from that 7 speed transmission?
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    Quote Originally Posted by roosterjuicer View Post

    anyone have any idea how much the ferrari benefits from that 7 speed transmission?
    The 599 GTB has only a six speed transmission.

    Frankly, I think this is a sort of absurd issue. The 599 is a fully road legal car that is drivable 7 days a week, if a few race car drivers (who are use to cars with higher tolerances and can drive much harder than any non-pro driver) blow tires after several V-Max laps I don't think that's any real demerit to Ferrari; at worst it's a demerit against Pirelli.
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    Maybe this was the reason behind Man Utd's Cristiano Ronaldo trashing his 599GTB this morning?!

    Cristiano Ronaldo crashes Ferrari - Telegraph

    Or maybe he just binned it.

    Speaks quite highly of the toughness of the Ferrari though, as Ronaldo hitched a lift to training and took full part in the training session apparently, not a scratch or bruise on him.
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