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  #16  
Old 08-21-2006, 06:17 AM
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Needs Borranis ASAP !
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  #17  
Old 08-21-2006, 06:19 AM
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Weird that they dont mention which chassis exactly ? A 70's Ferrari Chassis is a bit vague.
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  #18  
Old 08-22-2006, 01:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amenasce
Weird that they dont mention which chassis exactly ? A 70's Ferrari Chassis is a bit vague.
it says a "400 chassis"
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  #19  
Old 08-22-2006, 09:58 AM
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Arkansas, Conway, not so bad, really.
Looks a bit ungainly... Like somebody wearing a hat several sizes too small.

Also, the C-pillar and rake and shape of the rear window make the roof look an awful lot like the hardtop of a 107-series Mercedes SL.

Great for a custom, but I can see where Pininfarina wouldn't have signed it off. Their "fastback" styling worked to better effect on the 275 series. The "turret" roof worked better on 365's.
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  #20  
Old 08-23-2006, 09:01 AM
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I think it looks like someone abused a Lusso and a 275 GTB and it just looks very unproportioned.
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  #21  
Old 08-26-2006, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6speed
I think it looks like someone abused a Lusso and a 275 GTB and it just looks very unproportioned.
Agreed. It's done nicely but the proportions are off. The whole area of the C-pillar and the rear wheel is just wrong. Just one word, WHY?
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  #22  
Old 01-29-2007, 01:51 PM
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Who built it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyco
This car was hand built for a Ferrari Club of Australia member.
It wasn’t just built FOR a club member; it was built BY that member. He runs a Ferrari restoration shop in Sydney, Australia.

http://www.tomyang.net/cars/ferrari531.htm

Note: At the bottom of this webpage, click on “Next Restoration Day” to get to the page with the custom yellow Ferrari.
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  #23  
Old 02-01-2007, 11:46 AM
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It's hard to understand why. The back side of the cabin looks like it's been taken from a Fulvia. Those square lines don't seem to belong to the rest of the car. Bad idea.
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  #24  
Old 02-01-2007, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McReis
It's hard to understand why. The back side of the cabin looks like it's been taken from a Fulvia. Those square lines don't seem to belong to the rest of the car. Bad idea.
Perhaps they didn't like the member that much...
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  #25  
Old 02-03-2007, 02:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McReis
It's hard to understand why. The back side of the cabin looks like it's been taken from a Fulvia. Those square lines don't seem to belong to the rest of the car. Bad idea.
The entire greenhouse (incl'g front & back windshields) came from an Intermeccanica Italia Coupe. He modified the C-pillars to add side windows behind the door windows for a lighter look which I think is quite elegant - If I had an Italia Coupe, I'd want him to add those side windows to it.

As for the rear window - it is square, but that kind of goes with the territory when doing a two-seater coupe with a trunk instead of a fastback rear. You don't have a lot of room to drop a line from the roof down to the rear deck.

A more elegant solution would have been to extend the C-pillars back a little further along the sides of the trunk opening... leaving the square rear window inset slightly... Several mid engined cars have done this - the 1976 Lancia MonteCarlo/Scorpion is a good example, but this also increases the blind spot unless the C-pillars are opened up like the 1977 MonteCarlo/Scorpion, or the Maserati Merak (or the Ferrari Dino as a supremely well designed example)

The glass area of the Italia Coupes was very much inspired by the Ferrari 250 GTO Series II of 1964. The '68 Corvette also copied the Ferrari on this feature.

Given that he started with an Italia Coupe, he could have just left the C-pillars alone, and still had a mid-60's Ferrari look to the car. I give him a lot of credit for all the work he put into opening the C-pillars with more glass.
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Last edited by Motorace; 02-03-2007 at 02:16 AM.
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  #26  
Old 02-06-2007, 10:34 AM
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You think potential buys would be discuraged because its not "Offically" recognized as a Ferrari? Anyone interested in it would know its heritage.
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  #27  
Old 02-07-2007, 01:26 AM
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What Defines an “Authorized” or “Authentic” car? and what determines its VALUE?

Legal Disclaimer: Nothing in this post is intended to harm anyone or impact their cars’ values. This posting is entirely my personal opinion, but I'll support it with as many facts as I can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob
But has Ferrari authorized it? Without that, its not an official Ferrari, and is probably worth a lot less.
You bring up a great question about “provenance” – what defines the authenticity of a car?

Scenario #1 = “Authorization” by Concours Judges
A friend of mine owns an American-specification Ferrari 365 GTC/4. The American-spec cars came with red turn-signal lenses in the rear, whereas the European-spec cars’ rear turn signal lights were molded in an orange plastic. My friend preferred the European lenses (as I do too), and bought a pair from his Ferrari dealer – so they were still authorized Ferrari parts. He left them in place when we took the car to an FCA (Ferrari Club of America) Concours d’Elegance. He would have won his class except for the points he lost for having Euro-spec taillights on an American-spec car.

How do you (dear readers) feel about that?
Would you agree with the FCA Concours judges that this car was no longer fully “authorized”?

I assert its value to a buyer would be basically unchanged as long as the original taillights were included in the sale, but it might have been worth more if it had won the FCA Concours…so the judges’ assessment did have an impact on its value.

If you consider his GTC/4 to still be an “authorized” Ferrari, (here’s the big question) then where DO you draw the line? How many changes would you allow David Levy to make to this yellow custom ‘Ferrari’ before you would no longer consider it to be “authorized” – given that it looks nothing at all like the Ferrari 400 that came with the original chassis he modified to use for this car.

Scenario #2 = Authorization by “Provenance” or Chain-of-Ownership.
Since cars require titles, you could say that the provenance or chain of ownership proves it is still a Ferrari. The problem with this is… (let’s use a simple example) What if I could document that I have the original hatchet that George Washington used to chop down the cherry tree (by tracing the ownership directly back to him)? Would it matter that the axe-head had been replaced three times, and it was on its tenth handle? I could still claim it’s Washington's hachet based on provenance.

Under this scenario, my friend’s Ferrari GTC/4 is still a Ferrari because the ownership documents still recognize it as such. By the same reasoning, as long as David Levy has the title to the Ferrari chassis this yellow car is built on, then Ferrari already “authorized” it to be a Ferrari when it left their building. Had it been built on an Intermeccanica Italia chassis, then even if it had a Ferrari motor and Ferrari suspension parts, it would not be “authorized” by Ferrari.

Scenario #3 – Authorization by Chassis Plate

Some would say that you could replace every part on a car, and as long as you keep the original chassis plate with it’s factory-stamped chassis number, that is the final arbiter of that chassis being “authorized”.

I know a guy in California with the original banged-up aluminum body of an original 427 Shelby Cobra chassis that looks like it was raced very hard. The guy who sold it to him cut the chassis plate out of it (and kept the engine) to build into an all new car – since that was cheaper than restoring the old one. There’s no doubt in my mind that the banged up one was an original Shelby racecar, but without the original chassis plate, it’s probably worth no more than any other “replica” Cobra because it is no longer “authorized” without its chassis plate. Even if you got ten of Shelby’s mechanics to swear that they remember every dent from banging on that chassis & body during a race to repair accident damage, the owner of the chassis plate gets to claim that his is the original race car with all the provenance and value. (BTW the guy plans to rebuild it with another 427 motor and enjoy it for what it is, but it's value will not be astronomical - no matter how nicely he restores it)

Another example… In the 1960’s one of the Ford GT-40’s crashed and burned at LeMans. Sbarro (a Swiss coachbuilder) ended up with the wrecked chassis and just hung it on a wall in his shop (the original motor had been scrapped). Being a great coachbuilder, Sbarro was able to completely re-create the original car, using all new parts for the chassis tub, engine, wheels, suspension, brakes, glass, etc… As long as Sbarro owned the original chassis, Sbarro could “legally” claim that the rebuilt car WAS the original for purposes of vintage racing. This is often done… many racers would rather build a new chassis tub out of thicker aluminum for safety when racing, so they’ll build a replica tub to race with. As long as they own the original, they can race the replica as the original. I do not know what Sbarro did for a chassis plate for the vintage racer – (maybe made a replica of it too?)

Sbarro sold this 'rebuilt' car to a customer for big bucks as the original car, but the customer did not get the old wrecked tub with it. Sbarro later sold the wrecked tub to another restorer, who then rebuilt it and claimed that he had that same GT-40. When Ronnie Spain wrote the definitive book on GT-40 history (chassis-by-chassis), Ronnie identified the restoration from the original wrecked tub as the historically correct car. The guy who’d bought the car Sbarro built sued Ronnie. He was claiming that Ronnie Spain had de-valued his car by identifying the other car as the original in his book… Seems to me he should have sued Sbarro.

Want to read a really interesting story about these kinds of issues? Read about James Glickenhaus’ original P3/4 Ferrari. It had wrecked at LeMans, and the original chassis plate had melted in the ensuing fire… but the car was not totally destroyed, and research correlated certain modifications on Glickenhaus' car as the same chassis that had been wrecked at LeMans. Even though Ferrari had listed his chassis number as no-longer-in-existence, they allowed him to register his car with that chassis number (In other words, the factory RE-authorized the number!). Read the story here: VeloceToday - Online Magazine for Italian Car Enthusiasts!

WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE US?
So, imagine you’re an FCA Concours judge. How would you score this yellow custom Ferrari? As a “Ferrari 400” (based on it’s chassis) or as a ‘custom’ 275 GTB (based on it’s styling)? By either of these standards, the score would be abysmal… since even the wrong tailights will cost you points. As for a “custom” class, there is one, but even the Nembo Ferraris are disqualified from many top Ferrari Concours, despite their universally acclaimed beauty. I do not know what standards the FCA uses for top Concours judging of ‘custom’ Ferraris’ but I imagine they probably limit it to a handful of recognized coachbuilders like Scaglietti and Pininfarina.

Bottom Line = Which definition of “Authorized” do you subscribe to?

MONETARY VALUE IS ALL IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER.

Steve Ahlgrim said this of the Nembo Spyder, “Beauty is a great equalizer when it comes to automobile values. Performance is important, rarity plays a part, but give me a beautiful car and I'll show you a money maker.”, and “The final bid of $895,000 was at the low end of the Christie's estimate but several times more than it would have brought in its original configuration as a Series II PF cabriolet.” Sports Car Market Magazine > Profiles > 1960 Ferrari 250 GT “Nembo” Spyder

An un-authorized conversion of a Ferrari Daytona Coupe into a Spyder would lose points at a Ferrari Concours, yet would sell for more money than an 'authorized' coupe because a topless Daytona is more desirable.

On the other hand, even the most original “authorized” Ferraris have little value if they are a body style that few want… Lots of 250 GTE’s have been destroyed to use their engines and chassis to build replicas of other 250 GT’s like SWB’s, Testarossa’s and GTO’s. (If you find that hard to believe, here’s the remaining body of a nice 250 GTE for sale here. Make Tom an offer: Alfa Heaven Inc. Click on "Collector Cars" in the bottom right corner, and then drop to the bottom of that page.

I have to agree with you, Bob, that this yellow custom Ferrari will be worth less than other Ferraris that were actually made in the 1960s, but it just might be worth more than other Ferrari 400’s because those are not valued as highly as the 1960’s cars are. The “nicest 400i Spyder conversion in the world” sold for under $39,000 on eBay in 2004 Sports Car Market Magazine > Profiles > 1983 Ferrari 400i Spyder Conversion

I imagine that Mr. Levy can get at least that much for it, but it’s unlikely he’ll ever sell it for enough to cover his time and efforts. David Levy has put a huge amount of work into this Ferrari, but I think it has been a labor mostly of love. I almost wonder if he isn’t using this car as a test-bed for ideas as he makes restoration parts for his customers' Ferraris…
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Last edited by Motorace; 09-29-2008 at 07:23 PM. Reason: Grammatical corrections
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  #28  
Old 02-07-2007, 01:40 AM
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Motorace that was a brilliant summation.
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  #29  
Old 02-07-2007, 02:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyco
Motorace that was a brilliant summation.
Thank you - writing can also be a labor of love.
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