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  #16  
Old 07-05-2011, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
Impressive indeed, but equally pointless. In real life driving I'm more than willing to give half a second in acceleration for a proper chasis.

As long as the power goes to the front wheels it'll still be useless.

And that's without discussing engines ahead of the headlamps.

If you pretend driving pleasure you can't afford compromise.
Not sure I understand....Sure a front engine, front wheel drive car might be compromised, thats not to say they can't be fun per se. Now I won't bother with the 2.5 TFSI in a GTI. You don't want a 300+ bhp front drive hot hatch, thats just asking for problem. Though thats not to say it can't be done....

With the RS3 or TT-RS though, I don't see why they are pointless....Yes I totally understand your point of Audi having the engine stuck out front. But when you have the current B8 A4 having a weight distribuition of 54:46 F:R(something btw, a Infiniti G35 does not meet), what is the problem? A lighter weight front end, coupled with a swept forward front axle is addressing the downside of the quattro layout....and this is an issue predominantly affecting the longitudinal engined car. TT-RS/RS3 have their transverse motor, AWD layout, something that is shared with cars in the WRC for the last 2 decades...not to say Audi or VW are building anything like the Lancer Evo, but they are getting there. If everyone wants to build a front engine rear drive car, you'll have BMW everywhere, and they are not the end all of all driver's car.....A regular 135i has all the ingredient of a driver's car, but most review said its pretty uninspiring. 1M certainly fixed that, for a price.....
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Old 07-05-2011, 12:16 PM
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Surely they are very fast, four wheel drive cars offer grip that no two wheel drive car can match. And therefore in terms of overall speed there is no argument to be had.

But I'm not racing anyone nor do I care about the ultimate tenth in a lap time (or more appropiately a special stage). As a result grip isn't that important to me. I prefer a slower car but that will be rewarding and enjoyable to drive through a series of challenging corners.

This always remembers of the time when I drove the Audi A6 3.2 Quattro and the Jaguar XF 4.2 back to back on a local mountain road. The Audi was probably the faster car, even more in the hands of someone who just pretends to have a bit of fun. Grip was simply incredible. The Jaguar was more of a handful at high speeds. But even so, the car I want to drive is the Jag. The Audi felt so dettached, so artificial, as if you weren't part of the process. The Jag on the other hand was the absolute opposite, every input whether steering or throttle had an effect in how you took the corners.

I also disagree that equal layout cars will produce equal handling cars. And for this I will take the (best ever car in the world) Skoda Fabia and the Hyundai i30. Both are unpretentious family hatchbacks which are built more or less to do the same, which is take people from A to B without making a fuss. And yet they drive like night and day. The Skoda is the more grown up car, feeling far more stable, with the rear end firmly tied together, acting on the pedals does little to affect the line you take through a corner. The Hyundai on the other hand feels far more nervous but on the hand rewards you with handling you simply don't exepct from a korean hatch, the rear coming out to play whenever you want with plenty of lift off oversteer (nevermind touching the brakes). And the same can be said between the Mercedes-Benz SLK and the Mazda MX-5.

Finally, while the new tricky gearbox and clutch in longitudinal engined Audis has undoubtedly helped things improve, it still is a deeply flawed layout as far as handling is concerned. The Audi A5 Sportback understeers at the limit, and again there's little the pedals or steering can do to help it (it also had a preposterous speed sensing steering, but that's not the point here). It's like starting a fight with arm tied to the back, even if you are given a knife you are still going to lose.

Worst of all is pretending to be the last word in sports saloons and coupes. Becuase if they didn't have such an image, no one would care about them. And they would be what they have always been, well built, discreet, subtle even fast if you want, cars built in Ingolstadt.
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Old 07-05-2011, 12:48 PM
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Again, reading that is even more puzzling about the previous post. The beef you have is more to do with how Audi tunes their handling for their car, not how power is transmitted or how the layout of the car was designed. If Audi or VW wants, they can indeed, stuff the powerful 2.5 Turbo in a GTI, and make it a pointy nervous car. Its within the realm of knowhow for any car company. Doesn't mean they'll do it. Road car tuning is playing with degree of understeer you are building in to a car. All road car ultimately understeer, thats just how the industry works. Some gets closer to neutral that the others before you actually hit the limit, its just how they choose to go about their work. Generalize some layout as being useless is not being rational on the subject....
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Last edited by RacingManiac; 07-05-2011 at 12:50 PM.
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  #19  
Old 07-05-2011, 01:44 PM
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I haven't driven any Audi that didn't understeer hopelessly. Not mild. Catastrophic understeer.

There's also the small matter of paying a lot for something I can have for less.

EDIT Actually that's lie. The A3 wasn't that bad but was utterly boring, and the A2 isn't actually built to challenge the laws of physics.
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Last edited by Ferrer; 07-05-2011 at 02:16 PM.
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Old 07-05-2011, 01:57 PM
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Thats by design choice, not necessarily the fault of the layout. There are little difference between that and Subaru's layout....
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  #21  
Old 07-05-2011, 02:16 PM
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Well, then that's even worse.

Altough Subaru's have never been the most tail happy cars ever made.

STIs and EVOs certainly aren't my sort of cars.
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