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  #16  
Old 09-28-2005, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by furious_fiero
Where is that thread?
www.checkoutthesearchfeature.com

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum...highlight=snow
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  #17  
Old 09-28-2005, 09:53 PM
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come on people, need info on these black F1 LM's!
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  #18  
Old 09-28-2005, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by furious_fiero
come on people, need info on these black F1 LM's!
Actually, no one has really see the 2 black LMs. So no pics. Yes no pics, thats bad. I think both cars was delivered to Sultan of Brunei and was always been kept on his garage. Theres not much info about.

If you want to know more about McLaren Lm or the F1. Go in this forum. www.automotiveforums.com

There's a guy named peloton and he's a mclaren freak. He can almost answer all of you questions.
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  #19  
Old 09-29-2005, 12:04 AM
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Quote from Mclarens official website....

"As a tribute to the memory of Bruce McLaren, all the F1 LM's were painted in the same Papaya Orange that was used on his contemporary Formula One and Can Am cars."

Well that clears that up.
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  #20  
Old 09-29-2005, 12:13 AM
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Guys, I have this pic of a blue LM. Can anyone explain this???

If this is not an original LM then my apologies someone can remove the picture.

EDIT: One more red LM picture!!!!!!
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File Type: jpg McLaren F1 LM-2.JPG (164.1 KB, 144 views)
File Type: jpg Mclaren F1 LM-1.jpg (136.3 KB, 193 views)
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  #21  
Old 09-29-2005, 12:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by islero
Guys, I have this pic of a blue LM. Can anyone explain this???

If this is not an original LM then my apologies someone can remove the picture.

EDIT: One more red LM picture!!!!!!
They are not true original LMs. They are regular road car Mclarens fitted with the LM package with you could get custom through Mclaren.
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  #22  
Old 09-29-2005, 01:05 AM
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Mclaren is the crapest car ever...if you were blind,deaf and stupid! My god the LM is hardcore!!!!
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  #23  
Old 09-29-2005, 03:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by furious_fiero
Quote from Mclarens official website....

"As a tribute to the memory of Bruce McLaren, all the F1 LM's were painted in the same Papaya Orange that was used on his contemporary Formula One and Can Am cars."

Well that clears that up.
Two of them were black - you actually quoted the chassis numbers yourself already.

Just because you haven't seen them doesn't mean they don't exist.

McLaren are a company that deal with very wealthy people, and if they ask for a car to be painted in whatever colour, then they'll do it.

If McLaren's press release stating that all of the cars "are" orange was written before the customer orders were taken, how could they forsee that someone would want a different colour?

What would I possibly gain from making something like that up anyway?
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  #24  
Old 09-29-2005, 03:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eclipse360
Actually, no one has really see the 2 black LMs. So no pics. Yes no pics, thats bad. I think both cars was delivered to Sultan of Brunei and was always been kept on his garage. Theres not much info about.

If you want to know more about McLaren Lm or the F1. Go in this forum. www.automotiveforums.com

There's a guy named peloton and he's a mclaren freak. He can almost answer all of you questions.
Peloton25 posts here too, you know.

Thanks for the compliment - assuming you meant "freak" in a nice way.

Ok - 5 LMs were built for customers, but 6 were built in total if you count the prototype, which I do. The 5 customer cars were built to celebrate the 5 McLaren F1 GTRs that completed the 1995 24Hrs of LeMans race, finishing 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 13th places overall. It was a very impressive result for a first-time entry at LeMans.

On to the subject that popped up in the course of the thread:
I am fully convinced that the story of the Black LMs is true. Unfortunately there are no photos to prove that they exist, and there is also conflicting info from McLaren and other sources that they were all painted that distinctive Papaya Orange, both of which make it quite difficult to convince people that the story is true.

I have been in contact with 3 people who all claim that the two black LMs do indeed exist. These were all very credible sources - people who worked for McLaren Cars during the time that the customer LMs were built. Each one independently described the two cars with nearly identical details, lending immense credibility to the story of the Black LMs.

Additionally, the Chassis History poster that is included with Driving Ambition - which the QV500.com list was compiled from - clearly lists LM1 and LM4 as having been painted "Black + Graphics". See for yourself below if you do not have a copy already - XPLM is listed as the last F1 built in 1995, and then you can see the 5 customer LMs (LM1-LM5) were built in the middle of 1996. The chassis numbers in green are all the 1996 F1 GTRs, the numbers in white are standard road cars. The numbers on the row above (mostly blank) identify the order in which the F1 road cars were completed.

Additionally, a fourth rather high ranking McLaren Cars employee has told a story about how McLaren had intended to build all of the LMs in Orange, but that "a very high profile client had rejected that color on two of the three that they ordered". That high profile client was the Brunei Royal Family. As many here will know it is not uncommon for them to spec things that are a bit out of the ordinary from many car manufacturers. Besides LM1 and LM4, Brunei also ended up with LM5, which as you can see was painted the traditional Papaya color. They also have a number of standard F1s - at least 4, and they have a replica of GTR #01R, the LeMans winning F1 GTR, built upon the GTR #09R chassis.

Another thing that lends credibility to all of this is that the two customer LMs that have been spotted and photographed turned out to be LM3 (the car in the snow there) and LM2, which is kept in a small auto museum in Japan. Both of those cars are Papaya as the poster describes.

Sadly, photos of the Black LMs will probably never surface. Brunei is a strange place and only limited photos have ever been snuck out of the Sultan's many garages. Our only hope is that they might decide to sell one or more of these cars at some point, but I don't leave much hope for that. Only one of the reported 9 F1s that went to Brunei has managed to break free - chassis #014 painted Titanium Yellow - and it is now owned in the USA by Gary Schaevitz of New York.

= = = = = =

The "Blue LM" is indeed an F1 road car - chassis #011 built in 1994 and originally finished in Carbon (almost Black). Sometime in 1998, the car received a complete refit from the McLaren Cars factory for a new owner, converting the car to the High Downforce Kit that was described above. Except for the interior in this car, which is mostly a mixture of Brown leather and suede, this is probably one of my most favorite F1s.

This car was sold through a Christies Auction in London in 2003 for a total price of 637,720 GBP, including the Buyer's Premium. The car ended up somewhere in Europe and has not been seen since unfortunately.

= = =

The "Red LM" is actually painted Kandy Orange Metallic, and is yet another F1 road car that has been converted to look like an LM with the High Downforce Kit. It is chassis #073, one of the last F1s built in 1998. The car was originally finished in AMG Green Velvet, but later it too received a complete refit that actually included the installation of an LM-spec engine. This was done for a very special client of McLaren - actually one of the four men who helped to get the F1 project off the ground in 1988. His name is Mansour Ojjeh and he is the President of Techniques d'Avant Garde - makers of Tag Heuer watches along with many other businesses and early sponsors of the McLaren Formula 1 team. Later the two would merge and become partners, forming the Tag/McLaren Group.

Chassis #073 was also sold through a Christies Auction at the end of 2003 fetching a final price of £731,250 including Buyer's Premium. This car ended up coming to the USA and resides in the collection of a man named Don Wallace, of Tampa, FL. He owns the Lazy Daze RV company - an empire he built up from nothing starting in the 1970s I believe. He has an extremely impressive collection of exotics that includes an Enzo, Carrera GT, Koenigsegg CC8s, McLaren SLR and likely many more.

Incidentally - there are only two F1 road cars that have received the LM-spec engine upgrade - the other is a silver F1 with a unique set of headlights that also wears the High Downforce Kit. It is suspected that this car is chassis #059, but that isn't yet confirmed. Also, the name of the owner is unknown, but the car wears UK Registration plate "R66 MCL". I suspect they also have close ties to McLaren. BMW Motorsport will not be building any more LM-spec engines, so no other customers will be able to purchase this upgrade.

If you have more questions about F1s, I would be happy to answer them to the best of my ability. I will also try to add more hi-res LM photos to this thread soon.

>8^)
ER
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Last edited by Peloton25; 09-29-2005 at 03:57 AM.
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  #25  
Old 09-29-2005, 05:01 AM
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his knowledge never ceases to amaze me
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  #26  
Old 09-29-2005, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExoticCarSite
his knowledge never ceases to amaze me
Agreed!


Just two small questions Peloton, how many people from McLaren cars are you in contact with? Also, wouldn't the actual company have at least 1 or more pictures of the black LMs, I doubt that they'd sell the cars in such a unique colour and not at least have some pictorial record of it.
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  #27  
Old 09-29-2005, 05:45 AM
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Over the years that I've been pursuing F1 info, I have exchanged emails and spoken with approximately 8-10 current/former McLaren Cars employees. I'm not in constant contact with any of them, but could rattle some cages if I thought that I needed to. My most valuable source for info on the F1s I met through an Ebay auction actually.

The factory keeps excellent documentation and photos on each and every car. I am certain they have photos of the Black LMs - however I am also certain that if photos ever appear of those two cars, it will not be because McLaren has released them. They simply won't do that under any circumstances. The only one who might have a chance at getting access to their records would be a new or current owner of the car in question. It's really a shame...

I wish that Driving Ambition had included 2 or 3 photos of each car for reference purposes, but obviously they thought better of doing that. In fact, there are actually very few customer cars pictured inside the book. Most of the photos in the book are of the prototypes.

>8^)
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  #28  
Old 09-29-2005, 07:10 AM
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i forgot you come here too! you're the best!
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  #29  
Old 09-29-2005, 11:45 PM
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peloton, Do you have any document that has all the chassis numbers of all the cars? Can you please post that? After seeing the F1 GT and this LM thread, I really want to learn more about each and ever F1 built.

You are a Mclaren fount of knowledge, peloton. Thanks a lot for the info!!!!!

PS: one last thing. I want to know more about Bernd Pieschtrieder and Rowan atkinson's cars, can you tell me?( chassis number, their fate now, history etc)
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  #30  
Old 09-30-2005, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by man 430gt
Mclaren is the crapest car ever...if you were blind,deaf and stupid! My god the LM is hardcore!!!!
if dont love being mauled by a 241 mph 630 hp monster, THEN you can claim you dont like it.

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