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  #46  
Old 04-05-2006, 01:21 PM
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henk4 henk4 is offline
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another RWD TDI: The Chrysler 300 CRD....(sorry for forgetting that). May be GM needs to be taken over by BMW before they really start using diesel engines....
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  #47  
Old 04-05-2006, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine
oh, dear. We had egg on your face over that kidn of comment in teh past Slicks.
My inputs ARE based on actual first hand ( and occasiaonlly secodn hand form others in club and paddock ).
And to call it "crap" is makign YOU look as stupid as Guibo.
Mine are FACTS. Guibo hasn't a clue abotu what he's reading OR what he's talking abotu throttle control. Reading it in mags is not the same as taking Dingle Dell in a powerful rear engined car adn usgin the throttle to steer it ( and no NOT the stupid "drift" clown stuff ... THAT is easy to look good, we're talkign begin FAST )
Egg in my face? You mean when you blocked me because you hate being wrong in any situation?
Comparing me to Guibo is a complement, thank you.
This is coming from someone who daily drives a car with 375ft.lbs on tap, get off the throttle, its not that hard! Certainly my car isnt the easiest to control, but I can throttle steer in the rain pretty easily, you need to have some self control. Im sure the car you were driving was more prepped for the track than mine.
Quote:
Ah so like Guibo, NOT reading. You'll notice that I definately give the LS1 the hands up on those last three itmes ( go back and READ rather than knee-jerk ) ZING !!!!!
I only pointed out that the LS1 ins't the SMALLEST
Shame you got your knickers in a twist by believing the lies (marketing twist) of Chevrolet that it HAS to be the best everythign because it has a flag on it ( So DO you think it won Le Mans ???? )
I dont believe Chevy has to be good at anything, they suck at most things but can build one hell of a sports car. But I do believe in FACTS.
About LeMans, I wouldnt know, I dont watch.
Quote:
Sorry, but as was first posted the Powertec !!
man, this is too painful to type, ROFLMA :S
I love how you back your claim with dimentions...
Just looking at the Powertec in the pictures compared to people it seems like if it were smaller, it wouldnt be by very much...
http://www.radicalextremesportscars....runs/index.php

Quote:
erm, well if you KNOW anyone who types and thinks like that then I hasten to point that that's not "my clan".
The guys I talk about are on the tracks weekly around the UK and Euroep and on the rally stages. Getting the best all round performance is CRUCIAL to us.
What a silly comment THAT was , wasn't it Slicks .. given that you KNOW my history from previous exchanges !!!
Yes because track racing is the only kind of driving ever.
Quote:
oh,m dear, now THAT one was done to death a LONG time ago and PROVEN that other solutions actually had a wider usable power band Proven from facts, figures and charts and NOT the ramblings of an over-ejaculated mag reader !!!
BUT I concur that I'd also rather have 3,000 band of revs of usable power than 2,000.
But that's not the reality It's NOT jsut 6000-8000 and I'm NOT going into it again, you can go read throught the DOZENS of posts where I clarfied that with facts.
Yeeeeahhh, we did go over this, and it turns out I was right(LS6 vs elise engine, right?). Using the (wrong) formula you gave me came up with different resaults. I can bring it up for you to jog your memory.
Quote:
PS: What cars are you driving that have turbo-lag ? They dont' exist outside of the lunatic STIKKAS fanatics !!! That's a 1980s problem ...... well over here it is, maybe your favourite manufacturer has still to catch up on teh technology
Drove a WRX that litterally didnt move untill about 2500RPMs when the turbo spooled. What about aftermarket turbos, ever think of that? Bigger the turbo the more the lag, you know that.
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  #48  
Old 04-05-2006, 03:28 PM
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Matra et Alpine Matra et Alpine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slicks
Egg in my face? You mean when you blocked me because you hate being wrong in any situation?
No,because YOU didnt' like what you heard and twisted every way you coudl to avoid it
The facts are there, everyoen read it.
Quote:
Comparing me to Guibo is a complement, thank you.
This is coming from someone who daily drives a car with 375ft.lbs on tap, get off the throttle, its not that hard!
The comments were abgout using it on the limit.
I can drive the A610 like a pussy cat too.
But REALLY DRIVING it highlights the issues.
ANDN hten throttle control ON THE LIMIT was the poitn raised and pointed out.
Using your logic your commetns abtou "weed whackers" is stupid as you coudl always dri e it below 6,000 revs.
Quote:
But I do believe in FACTS.
About LeMans, I wouldnt know, I dont watch.
Avoidde THAT fact pretty quickly because it upsets the fantasy for you ?
Shamre really, being HONEST is the best policy and avoids fanboyisms
Quote:
I love how you back your claim with dimentions...
Just looking at the Powertec in the pictures compared to people it seems like if it were smaller, it wouldnt be by very much...
http://www.radicalextremesportscars....runs/index.php
Oooooooh, more EGG ON THE FACE>
I posted them for you in the A11 Powertec thread ( as it made more sense for it to be there than in a HONDA THREAD !!!!!
Jsut like smacking gums about the LS1
FFS, take it somewhere else Slicks
Quote:
Yeeeeahhh, we did go over this, and it turns out I was right(LS6 vs elise engine, right?). Using the (wrong) formula you gave me came up with different resaults. I can bring it up for you to jog your memory.
erm, You are in serious deniual.
You didnt' want to accept a 10% range on flat ( after all NOTHIGN is perfectly flat )
You refused to accept that.
THAT was why I stopped listending and frankly if you are STILL gonna bring up that BS line again then I'm getting ever MORE annoyed that Wouter removed that option !!!
So drop it acn get back to Honda.
Quote:
Drove a WRX that litterally didnt move untill about 2500RPMs when the turbo spooled. What about aftermarket turbos, ever think of that? Bigger the turbo the more the lag, you know that.
Well on the last point, we already covered that in my comment .... fanboys of rice WILL do silly things ..... just like fanboys of cubic inches

Yep and so the problem YOU have with the WRX is you dont' know how to drive it.
Yes you pull away at 2000 revs and then rev it out to 8000 .... that's 6,000 revs of usuable power isn't it ? So you like to pull from 1000 in a vette and pull it out to 6000 ..... still struggling with the whoel concept of USABLE POWER RANGE and stopping your bias affecting the using revs.
Be honest abotu that, you dont' liek revving an engine .. it's that simple.
I dont' have a problem using a torquey engien or a revvy engine.
You are limiting your mind




So take it to another thread or make comments ABOUT HONDA. FFS
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  #49  
Old 04-05-2006, 03:44 PM
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h00t_h00t h00t_h00t is offline
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I have to agree that the I4 VTEC engines sound bloody awful at 8000rpm, although I think its the exhaust thats the problem. A chavtastic civic with a "sports" exhaust sounded like it was going to tear the earth in two when it hit 8000rpm but he was in first and ended up looking stupid. 20 mph.
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  #50  
Old 04-05-2006, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine
No,because YOU didnt' like what you heard and twisted every way you coudl to avoid it
The facts are there, everyoen read it.
Riiiight, so you blocked me?
Quote:
The comments were abgout using it on the limit.
I can drive the A610 like a pussy cat too.
But REALLY DRIVING it highlights the issues.
ANDN hten throttle control ON THE LIMIT was the poitn raised and pointed out.
Obveoulsy you want to control the car, that means you might not be driving at the limit.
Quote:
Using your logic your commetns abtou "weed whackers" is stupid as you coudl always dri e it below 6,000 revs.
I said it sounded like a weedwaker at any RPM.
And your not going to be getting anywere fast under 6000RPMs (not like you would be getting anywere fast anyway )
Quote:
Avoidde THAT fact pretty quickly because it upsets the fantasy for you ?
Shamre really, being HONEST is the best policy and avoids fanboyisms
What fact? The LeMans? How am I going to comment on something that dont know about. Im not the one that brought up LeMans in that rotary vs LS2 thread (if thats where you got the idea).
Quote:
Oooooooh, more EGG ON THE FACE>
I posted them for you in the A11 Powertec thread ( as it made more sense for it to be there than in a HONDA THREAD !!!!!
Jsut like smacking gums about the LS1
FFS, take it somewhere else Slicks
Uhhh... what powertec thread are you talking about?
Quote:
erm, You are in serious deniual.
You didnt' want to accept a 10% range on flat ( after all NOTHIGN is perfectly flat )
You refused to accept that.
THAT was why I stopped listending and frankly if you are STILL gonna bring up that BS line again then I'm getting ever MORE annoyed that Wouter removed that option !!!
So drop it acn get back to Honda.
Thats because I mistakenly used the hp curve, and not the torque curve (whos falt that was, I dont remember). Using the torque curve like originally intended the LS6 came out on top.

Quote:
Well on the last point, we already covered that in my comment .... fanboys of rice WILL do silly things ..... just like fanboys of cubic inches

Yep and so the problem YOU have with the WRX is you dont' know how to drive it.
huh? That was a stock (02?) WRX. Theres no "not knowing how to drive it." The FACT of the matter is the car doesnt go until the turbo spools, just showing you that cars DO have turbo lag nowadays.
And instead of revving it high, popping the clutch (and damaging the tranny) I rather go from a roll...
Quote:
Yes you pull away at 2500 revs and then rev it out to 8000 .... that's 6,000 revs of usuable power isn't it ?
8000??????
Try 7000RPMs, and the car really didnt start to pick up until 3500RPMs.
Quote:
So you like to pull from 1000 in a vette and pull it out to 6000 ..... still struggling with the whoel concept of USABLE POWER RANGE and stopping your bias affecting the using revs.
Of course, idle to redline isnt usable, because it doesnt favor your high revving nature right?
Quote:
Be honest abotu that, you dont' liek revving an engine .. it's that simple.
I dont' have a problem using a torquey engien or a revvy engine.
You are limiting your mind
We've been over this, I dont like a peaky engine, I much PREFER one thats not.
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  #51  
Old 04-05-2006, 04:42 PM
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Matra et Alpine Matra et Alpine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slicks
Of course, idle to redline isnt usable, because it doesnt favor your high revving nature right?

We've been over this, I dont like a peaky engine, I much PREFER one thats not.
I think you MEAN you don't liek revvy engines ?
Low revving engines can be peaky and high revving engines can be smooth.
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  #52  
Old 04-05-2006, 06:18 PM
SLoppYJeeP SLoppYJeeP is offline
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Theres a trade off here thats made in engines. An engine tuned for low end torque is going to lose horsepower at higher RPMs, while an engine tuned for high rpm power is going to lack low speed torque. The usual method of overcoming this is the use of big displacement engines (v8) to provide enough grunt at low rpms and still pull hard up high. The fact that honda replaced this thinking with VTEC is a testimate to their enginuity and dedication to produce the best product possible.
Also, ALL CARS ARE LOUD. The sooner you realise this, the sooner you can get over hondas with loud exausts. a V8 with a free-flowing exaust will be just as loud, if not louder, then a honda with one, the ear splitting noice these engines make is the fault of the owner, not the engine.
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  #53  
Old 04-05-2006, 06:34 PM
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Slicks Slicks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henk4
all BMWs
All Mercedes
The Jaguar s-type and XJ
the Audi R10

and of course all these engines are DOHC 4-valves and don't rev higher than 5000......
another RWD TDI: The Chrysler 300 CRD....(sorry for forgetting that). May be GM needs to be taken over by BMW before they really start using diesel engines..
Should've rephrased that...
Any other diesels that are RWD and sold in America?
BTW I thought "TDI" was VW specific?
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  #54  
Old 04-05-2006, 06:35 PM
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Slicks Slicks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine
I think you MEAN you don't liek revvy engines ?
Low revving engines can be peaky and high revving engines can be smooth.
I dont like peaky engines. Got it?
You could call the LS7 "revvy" with its 7000RPM redline, but it certainly isnt peaky.
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  #55  
Old 04-05-2006, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLoppYJeeP
Theres a trade off here thats made in engines. An engine tuned for low end torque is going to lose horsepower at higher RPMs, while an engine tuned for high rpm power is going to lack low speed torque. The usual method of overcoming this is the use of big displacement engines (v8) to provide enough grunt at low rpms and still pull hard up high. The fact that honda replaced this thinking with VTEC is a testimate to their enginuity and dedication to produce the best product possible.
Also, ALL CARS ARE LOUD. The sooner you realise this, the sooner you can get over hondas with loud exausts. a V8 with a free-flowing exaust will be just as loud, if not louder, then a honda with one, the ear splitting noice these engines make is the fault of the owner, not the engine.
Uhh, youve got some things mixed up. VTEC engines STILL lack lack end torque. Plain and simple VTEC as a "performance enhancer" is just marketing. In it self its genious because of the fact that it worked(the marketing), all the kids are running around wanting little economy cars with VTEC because its "so advanced."

And Im NOT talking about loudness of the engine. Did you even watch the video I posted? It has nothing to do with loudness, but rather SOUND.
Listen to this:
http://videos.streetfire.net/Player....DCDED237E9&p=0
Its loud, and it sounds AMAZING.
Now listen to this:
http://videos.streetfire.net/categor...350950BDFF.htm
I could have recorded that with my weedwaker and no one would know the difference.
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  #56  
Old 04-05-2006, 07:27 PM
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The_Canuck The_Canuck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeta
they dominate that Indy racing league,
umm i like Honda but i gotta add somthing, as of now they are the only manufacturer in that league
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  #57  
Old 04-05-2006, 07:29 PM
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The_Canuck The_Canuck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slicks
Uhh, youve got some things mixed up. VTEC engines STILL lack lack end torque. Plain and simple VTEC as a "performance enhancer" is just marketing. In it self its genious because of the fact that it worked(the marketing), all the kids are running around wanting little economy cars with VTEC because its "so advanced."

And Im NOT talking about loudness of the engine. Did you even watch the video I posted? It has nothing to do with loudness, but rather SOUND.
Listen to this:
http://videos.streetfire.net/Player....DCDED237E9&p=0
Its loud, and it sounds AMAZING.
Now listen to this:
http://videos.streetfire.net/categor...350950BDFF.htm
I could have recorded that with my weedwaker and no one would know the difference.
oh no before i watch these vids there either drag racing, street racing or burnouts in a parking lot right?

EDIT: haha a driveway (my friend is always on that site )

Last edited by The_Canuck; 04-05-2006 at 07:31 PM.
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  #58  
Old 04-05-2006, 08:54 PM
SLoppYJeeP SLoppYJeeP is offline
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Acctually...Im afriad Slicks that you couldn't be more wrong if you tried. The VTEC system is NOT a marketing joke, it is acctually a very complicated system that imploys a 3rd cam with a high rpm profile. This allows the normal cam shafts to be tuned for acceptable low and midrange power and partial throttle fuel saving. I say "acceptable" because this is a 2.0 (give or take) liter engine we are talking about, and the torque gains are going to be relative to its displacement. (Read: VTEC wont make up for the extra 3.0 litres a large v8 has, BUT, it will boost performance signifigantly over other 2.0 liter engines). This torque allows a honda engine to be used with out reving it to its limits, it has plenty of torque to pull around town at low rmps. The VTEC system accomplishes this by adjusting the opening/closing times of the valves, even allowing the valves to open seperatly or not at all to promote an efficent swirling of the gas and O2 mixture. At high rpms, the system kicks in the all out high cam profile for high rpm power. beat that!
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  #59  
Old 04-05-2006, 10:02 PM
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henk4 henk4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slicks
Should've rephrased that...
Any other diesels that are RWD and sold in America?
BTW I thought "TDI" was VW specific?
Like GTI?
No, they used that acronym, Mercedes uses CDI, PSA/Ford uses HDI or TDCI, and BMW simply "d". The only difference between the VW engines and the rest is that all use a common rail injection system, while VW is using a pump nozzle system for the time being. However they have annouced that they will also switch to Common Rail, as it is more easier to control in terms of noise and emissions.

The Mercedes 320 CDI is sold in the USA. You can find a nice story on their websites about a distance record that 3 of those cars set in May 2005, somewhere on a track in the States, averaging about 225 kph to be followed by a 1000 km trip (one fuelload) to somewhere in Florida, averaging about 40 mpg.

If you (the USA) would be ready for it you could get the BMW, Mercedes and Audi V8s with mindboggling amounts of torque, which would be exactly what you describe as being your ideal engine. Prejudice about diesel engines in your country is still preventing that happening.

BTW Honda has developed its own 2.2 litre CRDi engine, which has got a good reputation too.
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Last edited by henk4; 04-05-2006 at 10:07 PM.
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  #60  
Old 04-05-2006, 10:50 PM
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Slicks Slicks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLoppYJeeP
Acctually...Im afriad Slicks that you couldn't be more wrong if you tried. The VTEC system is NOT a marketing joke, it is acctually a very complicated system that imploys a 3rd cam with a high rpm profile. This allows the normal cam shafts to be tuned for acceptable low and midrange power and partial throttle fuel saving. I say "acceptable" because this is a 2.0 (give or take) liter engine we are talking about, and the torque gains are going to be relative to its displacement. (Read: VTEC wont make up for the extra 3.0 litres a large v8 has, BUT, it will boost performance signifigantly over other 2.0 liter engines). This torque allows a honda engine to be used with out reving it to its limits, it has plenty of torque to pull around town at low rmps. The VTEC system accomplishes this by adjusting the opening/closing times of the valves, even allowing the valves to open seperatly or not at all to promote an efficent swirling of the gas and O2 mixture. At high rpms, the system kicks in the all out high cam profile for high rpm power. beat that!
I know what VTEC is an how it works.
Ive driven a few Honda I4 VTECs have you? And more importantly, if you have, have you driven anything else?
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