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  #16  
Old 05-26-2010, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
Why ?
We have an expression in Dutch which literally translates as:
You should not ask for the road you already know.
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  #17  
Old 05-26-2010, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henk4 View Post
We have an expression in Dutch which literally translates as:
You should not ask for the road you already know.
I'm sorry but I disagree. Yes, in some cases German cars are overpriced, but in others, while expensive, you get what you pay for. Which is superior engineering, handling, performance, quality or other attributes, or a combination of them.
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  #18  
Old 05-26-2010, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
I'm sorry but I disagree. Yes, in some cases German cars are overpriced, but in others, while expensive, you get what you pay for. Which is superior engineering, handling, performance, quality or other attributes, or a combination of them.
the marketing tricks seem to work with you
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  #19  
Old 05-26-2010, 12:09 PM
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But then you are paying way over the odds for the supposed "superior" engineering.
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Old 05-26-2010, 12:52 PM
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Ferrer is right though. Who would seriously turn down a RS4, M3 or C63 AMG for an Evo X or Subaru STI ? Only a die hard rally fan. Yes the japanese cars can provide thrills but only when pushing hard and as you know, that isn't something you can do often on the public roads.
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  #21  
Old 05-26-2010, 12:56 PM
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IN recent Scottish weather I'd definately go for the AWD and not a banker-wanker-rocket with a badge

There are better RWD cars for cheaper too !!
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Old 05-26-2010, 01:03 PM
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I wasn't comparing the german über-saloons to the Japanese rally-rockets, I personally think that they cater completely different markets and that comparing them is a bit like comparing apples to oranges. In the end it's wheter you can put up with a bit less perceived quality for more performance, or you rather prefer a more comfortable and useable daily driver.

My point was that in some cases German cars are fine value for money. They are undeniably expensive, but they offer more for your money. BMW is, usually, a classic case in point. Forget about the badge or the image, if you want a brilliant sports saloon or sports hatchback, it is difficult to do better for less money. Also if you want rear wheel drive dynamics, you are pretty much stuck with them.

I personally don't get why all (and I must emphasise all, because do deserve to be dissed) german cars have to be overpriced poser mobiles. That's as bad a stereotype as saying all italian cars are unreliable or all american cars crude, simple and rubbish.
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  #23  
Old 05-26-2010, 01:28 PM
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You equal in all but the badge for half the money

RWD "dynamics" ? The reason a "6 months of fun" car purchase became three years is it's SO much better than what's there. Tried the latest M3 and HUGE disapointment. Can't cope with the scottish twisties very well at all.

Motorway and company car park poseurs have different needs - none of which equate to "dynamics" or "value"


Didn't think we were on "uber saloons", just the performance 1 and 3 series.
Where they have lost their halo ... and are over-priced.
What's this "more for the money" ????
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  #24  
Old 05-26-2010, 01:31 PM
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the 1-series BMW very well fits the thread title, it is a little car for which you pay a lot of cash.
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Old 05-26-2010, 02:24 PM
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I don't care about the M3 either. It disappointed me as well, and especially with the 335i

But trying to argue that BMWs don't drive well and that you could do better for less money (at the low end of their range) is like trying to argue the Lucas electricas always worked.
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Old 05-26-2010, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henk4 View Post
the 1-series BMW very well fits the thread title, it is a little car for which you pay a lot of cash.
Sort of raises the question of "why buy new when used will do?"
Personally, I will always leave the more prestigious showroom floor purchases to people who really don't know any better. I've bought fantastic vehicles for far less money than even their brand new less expensive competition, only because I waited. Will I do it over again? Ja natürlich!
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  #27  
Old 05-26-2010, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
I don't care about the M3 either. It disappointed me as well, and especially with the 335i

But trying to argue that BMWs don't drive well and that you could do better for less money (at the low end of their range) is like trying to argue the Lucas electricas always worked.
The argument is not that.
The argument is that you pay a lot more for a car that is not really worth it. That was the first issue of the thread, in relation to the Subarus and the EVOs and in my opinion, the argument is more valid for the German prestige brands than for the Japanese cars.
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  #28  
Old 05-27-2010, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
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That was the first issue of the thread, in relation to the Subarus and the EVOs and in my opinion, the argument is more valid for the German prestige brands than for the Japanese cars.
I have to ask you again, why?

My car cost 25 grand. What other four seater that costs 25 grand drives as well as it?
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  #29  
Old 05-27-2010, 08:39 AM
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I have to ask you again, why?

My car cost 25 grand. What other four seater that costs 25 grand drives as well as it?
A Ford Focus 2.0 TDCI Titanium version costs as much as the 118d in Holland. It has a lot of standard features, for which BMW will charge extra, and for more importantly, it has four USABLE seats, and not two excuses in the rear. (Yes I know you will dismiss this car as it has FWD).
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  #30  
Old 05-27-2010, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henk4 View Post
A Ford Focus 2.0 TDCI Titanium version costs as much as the 118d in Holland. It has a lot of standard features, for which BMW will charge extra, and for more importantly, it has four USABLE seats, and not two excuses in the rear. (Yes I know you will dismiss this car as it has FWD).
I'm not dismissing it because it has front wheel drive, I wouldn't turn down a car because it has front wheel drive. But, yes, all things considered I think that multitasking is better for driving. And if a Focus costs the same as 1er, you are even contributing to my argument. I don't care about the gizmos or the standard kit, as a driver an entry level BMW is difficult to beat, if possible at all.

Maybe you should drive one.
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