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Thread: The world is upside down

  1. #1
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    The world is upside down

    BMW is very proud to announce everyone that recently they’ll be launching an M-fettled version of their 1-Series small Coupé. The M Division boss has said in an official interview and they’ve launched an official video where you can see a prototype of the car driving around at moderate speeds. Whether this car has actually a place in BMW’s increasingly crowded line up remains to be seen, but let’s not distract ourselves from the main point here.

    When the rumours started about this car, they said it was two have one of those new, ultra modern, dual clutch gearboxes and that would have been a very sensible option. But apparently that’s not to be. This car will have one those old-fashioned, crude and inefficient gearboxes that refuse to give up the pedal on the far left.

    And it’s not alone. When everyone is giving the world all sorts of self shifting transmission, from continuously variable arrangements to all sorts of multiple clutches and everything in between, up to the 5 you can have almost everything with a manual gearbox at BMW still. Whatever you have in mind, be it a small one or the big five you can have a clutch pedal, should you fancy one.

    What’s more, the Germans don’t stop there. Because if you decide to leave Munich and head to Stuttgart, or to be precise Zuffenhausen, you will find another manufacturer that’s making life difficult for those who find changing gear a bit annoying. Porsche, somehow, seems to be ignoring all the new trends regarding transmission components and still fits row-your-own ‘boxes to all their serious cars, and furthermore it’s the only option. And as if it that wasn’t enough, the steering wheel mounted controls for the PDK gearboxes are completely unfathomable (although that’s changed recently), making it seem like Porsche is encouraging you to just leave them alone and go for what has always worked. Also, the Panamera is the only F-segment saloon to still feature a manual.

    And that’s odd, because Germany has to be one of the most automatic nations in Europe. Or at least much more that everything there is to the west and south of it, which if we are being honest is all that matters here. Their culture fits perfectly within all those new innovations and developments. They are, efficient and practical, they like everything being clean and perfect. And that is precisely all that bring the new generation of gearboxes. They make you car faster, and they make it more frugal and smoother. So it’s perfect. Only it isn’t.

    But what’s even more weird is what happens if you take a plane and travel south to Italy. Now, I should explain that Italians (like all Latins, and especially the further south you go) were born with no brains at all and a big heart. As a result we don’t understand practicality, or sensibleness or efficiency. All that matters is that if something sets on our heart, then it goes without caring if it gives us all sorts of aches or if it breaks down or if it makes our lives difficult.

    It’s also important to acknowledge that we aren’t able to grasp the concept of an automatic gearbox. We invited our friends from the north to a delicious meal and a glass of wine and we found that outside our lovely sunny countries people were buying them. And we thought, aha! We’ll make one and we’ll conquer the world. Only we didn’t because the thing kept breaking down, was jerky or changed gear slower than an American, or all of them and most of the time they are thinly disguised manual gearboxes. Being a lot poorer than those who mastered it didn’t help either.

    And yet, these days it is impossible to get a Maserati with a clutch pedal and it’s increasingly difficult to find a Ferrari with one. Abarth is introducing new semi automatic transmissions fast, and the 500C is only available with it. Only Alfa Romeo seems to more or less resist and that must be because they can’t afford anything and anyway no one would buy it.

    So it seems indeed that the world is upside down.
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
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  2. #2
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    As usual, you make no sense what so ever.

    Today, about 75 % of all new Porsches sold in Germany are with automatic gearbox.

    For Mercedes, that figure is around 80 %. For BMW and Audi - circa 50%.

    Manual gearboxes are on the way out, my friend, and Germans are leading the way.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revo View Post
    As usual, you make no sense what so ever.

    Today, about 75 % of all new Porsches sold in Germany are with automatic gearbox.

    For Mercedes, that figure is around 80 %. For BMW and Audi - circa 50%.

    Manual gearboxes are on the way out, my friend, and Germans are leading the way.
    That was precisely my point.

    Germany is an automatic country, yet their manufacturers insist with a manual. Italy is a manual country, yet their manufacturers seem to be embracing automatics.
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
    Visca Catalunya!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    Germany is an automatic country, yet their manufacturers insist with a manual.
    No, they don't insist. This is nothing more than a little innocent flirt with misguided enthusiasts like you.

    A clever marketing trick, if you will.

  5. #5
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    But if they are not insisting why not discontinue them?

    I'm mean, what must be the market share for manual 535is?
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
    Visca Catalunya!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    But if they are not insisting why not discontinue them?
    Because unlike Italians, Germans have a reputation to maintain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    That was precisely my point.

    Germany is an automatic country, yet their manufacturers insist with a manual. Italy is a manual country, yet their manufacturers seem to be embracing automatics.
    Probably it's a tradition thing. All the enthusiasts would probably destroy Porsche if they decided to stop making manuals. They'd be more angry than the time Porsche stopped making air cooled Porsches.

    And once again, Ferrer has struck again.

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    Yes, but take Jaguar. They can be considered as much an enthusiast choice as Alfa Romeo or BMW can. And yet they have no manual gearboxes in their line up at all (they have already discontinued the X-Type, haven't they?).

    Maybe they don't have a reputation either and everything is dominated by ze Germans. Or something.
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
    Visca Catalunya!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    Yes, but take Jaguar. They can be considered as much an enthusiast choice as Alfa Romeo or BMW can. And yet they have no manual gearboxes in their line up at all (they have already discontinued the X-Type, haven't they?).

    Maybe they don't have a reputation either and everything is dominated by ze Germans. Or something.
    Do you really consider them to be a enthusiast brand? I don't really take them all that seriously, especially now that I know they have no manuals in the lineup. At all. Not even in the XJR?

    Probably because they are now owned by the Indians.

    And Ferrer, you forget that automatics are pretty cheap now and everyone learns on an automatic at least. Stepping up to a DSG gearbox is just the next step up. The only reason why manuals used to be popular was because they were cheaper. It wasn't because it was the enthusiast's thing to do.

    Add the fact that DSGs allow for more gear ratios = more efficiency, it's going to be hard to keep manuals in cars for any longer. Sad but true.

  10. #10
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    Well, sort of like clutch's signature says, there are some a Porsche who still feel like performance has to be earned.

    Maybe, like Morgan's head of design, Porsche keeps a handful of gearheads locked in the basement and they have formed the manual cabal and have managed, if not to keep the tide at bay, to keep a few rocks poking up above the rising sea.
    Or something.
    "Kimi, can you improve on your [race] finish?"
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    Quote Originally Posted by NSXType-R View Post
    Do you really consider them to be a enthusiast brand? I don't really take them all that seriously, especially now that I know they have no manuals in the lineup. At all. Not even in the XJR?

    Probably because they are now owned by the Indians.
    Gearbox aside, the XF is a pretty good sports saloon, and I can only imagine the others with lighter aluminium to be even better.

    Jag has always been a car made for the driver.
    Quote Originally Posted by NSXType-R View Post
    and everyone learns on an automatic at least
    Not everyone. In fact no one in Europe, except if you are disabled or have special permit.

    In Europe the manual is still commonplace. And especially in the south, were the auto is still seen as something unfamiliar and not to be trusted since it must work on witchcraft.
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
    Visca Catalunya!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    Yes, but take Jaguar. They can be considered as much an enthusiast choice as Alfa Romeo or BMW can. And yet they have no manual gearboxes in their line up at all (they have already discontinued the X-Type, haven't they?).

    Maybe they don't have a reputation either and everything is dominated by ze Germans. Or something.
    I'm not sure Jag have had a manual since the 70s. Then they had the J-gate in the 80s to make it easier to select the gear you wanted in the 80s, but it was still a normal slushbox.

    I learnt to drive in a manual, I believe young drivers who learn in one and drive one for a few years make for better drivers. They have to concentrate much more on what they're doing for one thing.
    Life's too short to drive bad cars.

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    They are obviously making manual gearbox's because people are still buying them. These are businesses and they are trying to make money, so if people are buying them they will make them.
    I want to die in my sleep like my Grandma, not screaming like the other 3 people in her car.

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  14. #14
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    That is, sufficient people are buying them. Ferrari could have sold a manual 430 Scud or two, but it wasn't worth the engineering time. Likewise Jag and the XFR. I'd buy one, you might buy one, but the general populace wouldn't.
    Life's too short to drive bad cars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by f6fhellcat13 View Post
    Well, sort of like clutch's signature says, there are some a Porsche who still feel like performance has to be earned.
    it's like going from a little lithgow .22LR single shot to an M60 with no additional work/training.
    Quote Originally Posted by pimento View Post
    That is, sufficient people are buying them. Ferrari could have sold a manual 430 Scud or two, but it wasn't worth the engineering time.
    i wondered about this. everyone jumps on board with ferrari's paddle shift, but other makers get panned for using them instead of manuals..
    Andreas Preuninger, Manager of Porsche High Performance Cars: "Grandmas can use paddles. They aren't challenging."

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