The world is upside down

[Ferrer]

I said popularisation, not introduction.

[henk4]

I said popularisation, not introduction.

well, for being popularised, you have to introduce it first.....and yes Ferrari introduced the flipper box in the F1-1989.

[f6fhellcat13]

I agree with clutch, I was not a huge fan of modern Lamborghini 'til the Balboni rolled around. Then I remained not a huge fan, but I did become a huge fan of one of their cars, which I haven't done for some time.

For those who saw Top Gear today/yesterday, it shows some of the packaging issue that come with paddle shifter. Ferrari admittedly has an inefficient solution to the problem, but just think they could have avoided that packaging problem by not using paddles. Also, if you saw Jeff Goldblum's lap you can plainly see you don't need experience, fourth, or fifth gear to go quickly in a manual.

I think it's pretty criminal that Ferrari's front-mounted twelves don't have a slick gated shifter because that seems, to me, to be an integral part of the GT experience. When Ferrari starts making good-looking or tolerable Dinos and midship twelves, then I'll start caring about the void between their seats.

[Ferrer]

well, for being popularised, you have to introduce it first.....

Yes, but if you stick with a conventional 4-speed auto for years, and then never introduce autos in the hardcore cars, and then when you finally get you act together to have a flappy paddle gearbox you do the paddles all wrong, well you are not going to make them popular this way...

[henk4]

Yes, but if you stick with a conventional 4-speed auto for years, and then never introduce autos in the hardcore cars, and then when you finally get you act together to have a flappy paddle gearbox you do the paddles all wrong, well you are not going to make them popular this way...

Did you try the F1-1989 to prove what you say there about the wrong gearbox paddles?

[Ferrer]

Did you try the F1-1989 to prove what you say there about the wrong gearbox paddles?

I meant buttons on the steering wheel of Porsches.

[clutch-monkey]

I think it's pretty criminal that Ferrari's front-mounted twelves don't have a slick gated shifter because that seems, to me, to be an integral part of the GT experience.

that's a very good point, outright numbers and track times are not important for those cars, so it's criminal to leave out the gated manual.
on the other hand, it's admittedly likely to be a diminishing portion of that market that uses manuals, so ferrari might simply be cutting their losses?

[henk4]

that's a very good point, outright numbers and track times are not important for those cars, so it's criminal to leave out the gated manual.
on the other hand, it's admittedly likely to be a diminishing portion of that market that uses manuals, so ferrari might simply be cutting their losses?

the supercars market: 95% posers, 5% drivers or thereabouts?

[henk4]

I meant buttons on the steering wheel of Porsches.

the sportomatic was not using buttons....

[clutch-monkey]

the supercars market: 95% posers, 5% drivers or thereabouts?

sounds about right..
whilst i don't have to like the loss of nice, slick shifting manuals i can understand why ferrari did it..
why lambo is not keeping the option though
i wonder why porsche held out for so long? less demand for it in their cars, or stubborness.. if they refuse to change the engine location in the 911, i can see why they'd hold out against flappy paddles

[f6fhellcat13]

the supercars market: 95% posers, 5% drivers or thereabouts?

Hell, that's a way to prevent the rampant overspending we just went through. Mandatory three-pedal supercars.
...and make them drive their own yachts too.

EDIT: Seeing as Porsche has been more that willing to perjure their legacy with the Cayenne and Panamera, it's a pretty welcome surprise that they still have rogue gearheads floating around their HQ.

[clutch-monkey]

EDIT: Seeing as Porsche has been more that willing to perjure their legacy with the Cayenne and Panamera, it's a pretty welcome surprise that they still have rogue gearheads floating around their HQ.

NEIN
i like to imagine it's a timeless war between the marketers and some engineers holed away in the performance division

[pimento]

It was probably the compromise. "Do the Cayenne and we'll not drop manual gearboxes."

[Kitdy]

why lambo is not keeping the option though

I feel that there are actually some (yes, maybe 5%) of Ferrari drivers that can drive.

I feel that the percentage of "drivers" of Lamborghinis is much less however; even more than Ferraris, I feel that they are just used to drop panties and impress friends and strangers.

Their lack of a manual makes perfect sense to me.

[wwgkd]

I feel that there are actually some (yes, maybe 5%) of Ferrari drivers that can drive.

I feel that the percentage of "drivers" of Lamborghinis is much less however; even more than Ferraris, I feel that they are just used to drop panties and impress friends and strangers.

Their lack of a manual makes perfect sense to me.

This.


Also blaming the car companies, especially a small company like Ferrari is missing the point. For them to spend a large amount of money developing a real manual for each new car, when less than 5% of that model will be sold with one, doesn't make sense. Why not spend more time on developing a better flappy paddle box since that's what's going to sell? Many of the "real" drivers who buy Ferraris are racing them anyways, and want the flappy paddle for the performance edge.

Yeah, I want a 458 with a real manual, but I don't have the money to buy one with either type of transmission so my opinnion doesn't matter much to them. I think porsche is able to keep it up because they are a bigger company, and their customers tend to like as little change as possible anyways.