The State of The Car

[NSXType-R]

If this came to Europe it would cost more than 100.000€. Madness.

On the other hand, would you pay 54 grand for an Alfa Romeo 4C when for the same you could have a perfectly well sorted Porsche Cayman?

I thought the Alfa would be more expensive than that, more like 70 or 80k?

I honestly can't say I would take the Alfa either. An Alfa is an Alfa, but even if it's reliable, getting it serviced would be hard here in the US. Do you take it to the Maserati/Ferrari dealers or the Chrysler/Fiat ones?

On a side note, the colors for the 4C are boring. 2 shades of red, 2 shades of white, 1 shade of grey, 1 shade of black. Really?

[Ferrer]

There is only one possible colour for the 4C, red.

My comment was directed more towards the fact not always the more obvious choice is the correct one.

At 75 grand, the Camaro seems bad value, but surely the Z28 has goodies that the standard Corvette doesn't, and it is a car prepared for a specific purpose (the track). There's also the inverted snobbery of not choosing the obvious choice, i.e. it's better to have an exclusive Camaro than a mainstream Corvette.

The same goes for the Alfa, objectively the Porsche is better and will probably be fuss free; however who wants to go for the safe option when for the same sort of money you could have an Alfa Romeo?

[Revo]

On a side note, the colors for the 4C are boring. 2 shades of red, 2 shades of white, 1 shade of grey, 1 shade of black. Really?

Your boredom with 4C should stop once it is time to top up windscreen washer fluid.

The process consists of 8 steps and includes a screwdriver and funnel with extension pipe.

[NSXType-R]

So yeah, would this be the new Nissan GT-86?

NEWS: Nissan IDx production confirmed | Japanese Nostalgic Car

Looks like the success of the Toybaru has got Nissan's attention. Now if they would get rid of the planned CVT altogether...

I'm interested! New Supra, new Lexus RC-F, NSX coming out soon, this unknown Nissan sports car, and of course the new STi.

Meanwhile, Mitsubishi and Honda seem to be stuck in their old ways.

Shame.

[Ferrer]

Good news indeed, if they end up producing it. I don't care about the CVT, as long as it is an optional extra.

By the way, there's also talk of the Kia Stinger reaching production. They have quoted the weight of the concept car, that is usually not done unless there are some specific plans for it...

It's the petrolhead's golden era!

[f6fhellcat13]

I've heard rumors that Volvo might pull out of the US market in the coming years, so I began thinking about the state Volvo's in. Being bored at work, I decided to compile a list of car companies who seem to be lost in the woods and those doing well. There are no particular qualities that make me put an automaker in on category or another; I have some who are selling well in the "lost their way", some selling poorly in the "getting it right", as well as manufacturers that I like and don't like in either category. Obviously this list will have an American slant, because we're the only country on earth. Hopefully you foreigners (not you, Kitdy) can chime in about your made-up faraway lands and the car markets therein.

Companies Who've Lost Their Mojo:

Volvo: Volvo isn't really Volvo anymore; thanks to them pushing the safety issue so strongly, now everyone's doing it! With that edge lost, and their interiors in the last decade compromised by the Ford partsbin, they seem to be another vaguely-luxurious brand with no real direction; fittingly enough, they seem very similar to Lincoln in that regard. Their cars are styled pleasantly enough inside and out, but they don't really speak to a market segment. Despite losing most benefit from their "safe" image, they still have the slightly-stodgy stigma that went with it. Someone looking to buy something a little out of the ordinary won't really consider a Volvo because they don't have the rakish qualities that most other oddball brands seem to have. Compounding the problem, owners of old Volvos drive old Volvos, so that key demographic is lost.

Saab/NEVS: What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. What does, does not. From what I understand, they will only be selling in their home (Chinese) market for a few years until they car ramp up design and production to start making some new cars. Currently, the idea of a twelve-year-old 9-3 with an electric engine is not particularly appealing and, at the prices Saab feels justified charging, will not entice people into their showrooms. The effects of Chinese ownership have yet to really be felt, neither in the Saab range nor in Volvo's, so there might be a renaissance of boutique Swedish carmakers once all those yuan start making themselves felt. I don't think any of us are holding our breath though.

Suzuki: I would like to think that there's a market in the US for cheap cars that aren't the godawful Nissan Versa or Korean. I thought Suzuki could have filled that role well. Though we mock them today, the Samurai and Swift (Geo Metro) were very much compacts to suit their respective days; light, simple, frugal, rough around the edges, and, most of all, cheap. I thought that either the SX4 or Kizashi (great name) could fill that bottom-feeder segment quite well. The SX4 had the AWD option and the Kizashi has looks and some degree of sprightliness. From what I understand, they made the cars so cheap by decontenting them, so that once options were added the prices rose precipitously. Still, if you're looking for basic transportation, beyond an A/C or heater, depending upon where you live, and a radio, you shouldn't need any options. I don't think many mourn Suzuki's passing, but I do; so there.

Mitsubishi: I guess this is beating a dead horse, as calls for Mitsubishi to pull out of the US have been heard ever since that rumor that the Evo was being cancelled. Like Suzuki, their range seems to live mostly at the bottom of any particular size segment. The only reason to buy one, with Suzuki's departure anyway, was that you could get into a Korean-priced car without going Korean. However, the Koreans will not only give you better value for your money, they'll include enough reliability/warranty to get you a few years down the road, too. From what I've heard Mitsubishis struggle to do that and I certainly don't see too many old ones, sporty models excepted, on the road (even in Southern California). They are such a non-contender, that even the i-MiEV, which should be popular, has struggled to have its existence known. Make other sporty things with AWD, they might sell.

Fisler/Chryat: They do make cars that I like, but they're just so lost in space. Getting a space cadet of an Italian corporation to merge with a space cadet of an American one was never going to produce a rationalist, as Ferrer would say, Fiat lineup. That I can accept. In fact, I would be worried if it was any other way; Italian companies are always making the wrong cars that we love. In this case though, they're making the wrong wrong cars. There are few silly enthusiast cars, just cars that, with a few exceptions, poorly fit their target market and, in some cases, desecrate their marques good name. On the Chrysler side, their lineup, with names slightly-altered, is the same as before the horrendous kablooie. Dodge has tried with the Dart, which I would really like to like, but other than the Charger/300, I don't seem many viable options there either. RAM angers me, so I'll leave them out. Jeep is doing fine; the only Jeep that matters is the Wrangler and that’s being made. As long as Jeep still makes Jeeps, they can do whatever else the want in their spare time. Also, Alfa, put a little piece of ****ing plastic over the headlights on the 4C and take my money. I still don't quite agree with any number of choices they made on that car, but it's very much an Alfa Romeo.

VAG: I am biased, but their products do very little for me. Like I said above, I reserve the right to be capricious in my choices. Their diesels seem to have found their niche, but I don't really care. In my eyes they are overpriced, overdamped, oversprung, and sold under false pretenses of German quality. Porsche's current trajectory, which I know is not VW's fault, is also not to my liking. I did think the XL1 was a very cool car though.

Jaguar: I was going to lump Land Rover in but Land Rover has a niche, whereas Jag seems to have lost theirs about 10 years ago. I like their current range, but in a disinterested way. Even the F-Type is too artificial and the rest of their range lacks the confidently-understated plushness that they used to have. Blame the marauding Germans for pummeling their market segment into a pulp, but, unfortunately, the impetus is on Jag to make a car that is quintessentially Jaguar, but not in a segment only shopped by those who want German cars.

Honda/Acura: Honda used to make cars for engineers. You could nerd out on all the little details that were always just-so. They also drove nicely, helped no doubt helped by being the only Japanese company that didn't feel the need to give their cars 18" (450mm) of ground clearance for the American market. Of their current range, the nicest thing I can say is that the CR-Z is a good idea executed poorly. The Accord is also a good car, but it's ugly and no significant improvement on its forebears. Everything else they make might as well be a Toyota. The luxury market has become so bloated and the power so much that Acura cannot hope to compete with a steadfastly-FWD range. They've also positioned themselves way too far upmarket; to use an outmoded metric, they should be far nearer Buick/Olds territory than Cadillac. In that range they can sell warmed-over Hondas if those Hondas are interesting to begin with and do well with them, too. Getting rid of the beak would be wise, too.

Lincoln (duh): I like the looks of a good number of their new releases, but still...

BMW/Peugeot: They urgently need to stop making ugly cars.

[f6fhellcat13]

Automakers on Their Game:

Mazda: Ah yes, Mazda: the darling of the realistic automotive enthusiast. With the exception of the CXs, everything they make I like, and they even put an engine that I like in those SUVs! I look forward to the Alfiata and hope Mazda doesn't get caught up and dragged down by an Italianate mess in the process.

Tesla: Tesla managed to take one of the most traditionally-awkward genres of cars and they've made it cool. Electrics aside, it's a fast well-handling car that looks better than any four-door in recent memory. This is the type of car that Jag should be making. They're also Californian, which I like.
Kia/Hyundai: I don't think saying the Korean manufacturers are going through a renaissance would be that controversial of an opinion; their quality is increasing and their styling is improving in leaps and bounds. While cost still drives their purchase, they are making a better and better argument for themselves, not just as cheap cars, but as cars. The extensive warranties and the panoply of features make them solid, if uninteresting, buys. To bastardize a Churchill quote "it is the end of the beginning" for them; they are real car manufacturers making competitive products. Now all they need to do, like the Japanese before them, is find their "voice" both in design and engineering. I still don't really have a cogent idea of what a Korean car is other than cheap, so I look forward to them changing that. I also look forward to the Stinger.

Scion: I hate calling them that, but that's what they call themselves. Though less popular on this retrograde coast, they still enjoy a fair amount of popularity and a sound ethos: reliable, sometimes interesting cars for young people. While the xB, tC, and xD do little for me, the strength of the FR-S and iQ elevate them onto this side of the list.

Subaru: I don't really like their cars, but they have very successfully carved out their niche in the market. Living in Connectishit, I see them every-goddamn-where. The WRX and STI as a model are getting a bit fetid; no rally involvement and seemingly minimal attention from Subaru are not doing those cars any favors, which the new one seems unlikely to improve. Maybe it's all part of their endgame; Subarus are for nice people, they are no longer blue cars with 4" exhausts that have somehow been t-boned by a lampost. How the BRZ fits in to that plan, I'm not sure, but let's not question it, okay?

Companies Who Just Are:

Toyota/Lexus: See Scion. Their bread and butter is doing what it's meant to do as it has always done: nothing worthwhile for an enthusiast, but nothing to scoff at. The march towards world domination moves relentlessly forward.

Ford: Ford is interesting, they seem to be trying all the right things, and should probably be on the good list. They’ve brought some of their much-clamored-for European joints as well as keeping the Mustang consistently at the top of the ponycar heap. Their cars tend towards the boring, but I think I’ve miscategorized them.

GM: With Cadillac and Corvettes as the high points, GM continues to crank out general motors for general peoples.

Mercedes-Benz/Audi/BMW: They continue to cater extremely well to their ever-growing niche.

I’m sure I’ve forgotten some cars. Sorry.

[RacingManiac]

Nissan? Tend to agree on a lot of that...

I'd add confusing market segmenting to BMW...since with their odd/even naming and adding the Grand Coupe to muddy the water. Plus weight problem. VAG seems to be fighting that to a degree. I mean a M235i is only 50lb lighter than a 435i? And both are around 3550lb?

[f6fhellcat13]

Nissan? Tend to agree on a lot of that...

I'd add confusing market segmenting to BMW...since with their odd/even naming and adding the Grand Coupe to muddy the water. Plus weight problem. VAG seems to be fighting that to a degree. I mean a M235i is only 50lb lighter than a 435i? And both are around 3550lb?

I forgot about Nissan. I guess that puts them in the "Keep on Keeping on" category. The GT-R is extremely impressive, but the rest of the range is only really sufficient and doesn't attract me in the least. It seems to be working for them.

I think that the Germans are currently going supernova and will, in the coming decades, implode. Their model ranges are becoming so bloated and chase after so many false niches that they will lose their premiumness and people will stop holding them in such high regard.

I'm not sure that the weight thing is just a German issue, though their incestuous platform sharing and modification isn't helping. Fortunately, materials and manufacturing are getting better and I think in one or two generations will start getting seriously lighter. I guess the arrogance of the German companies does lend itself to a certain corpulence, though...

[pimento]

Funny thing, I saw a new Saab 9-5 when I was in Singapore. I didn't know it'd been on sale anywhere. Very nice looking thing in the.. metal.

[xander18]

hellcat, I think there's a difference between truly lost automakers and deeply transitional automakers. VAG (particularly in regards to their US operations) are truly lost. Fiat/Chrysler is definitely in a state of change. I have less respect for Volkswagen than Chrysler in this regard. At least Chrysler is trying something (especially in light of the Ram 1500 diesel, Chrysler 200, and Jeep Cherokee) that might work. VAG is just not breaking into the US market, their cars aren't working over here, but they're going to keep throwing money at the problem. I could proselytize about a few of your choices, or concur with a few others, but it seems to be a highly transitional time for many automakers.

[RacingManiac]

I don't know if VAG is not working. They've doubled their annual sales from the late 2000s in the every one of the last 3 years(they used to sell 200k cars a year, now they are in the 400ks). But they are stagnating because they just don't have enough products here. We are talking about BMW basically making a car for every possible niche and genre and selling them. VAG already makes that but they are not selling them here. American nowadays are buying bigger(but value priced) SUV/crossover, smaller compact car that's cheap, and work trucks. VAG has nothing in each of those segments.

If you are looking in the category where VW sells cars, you probably could find something you want. But if you are not, you just won't....

[Ferrer]

Good analysis, but some of the views are too much US-centric. So don't worry here we come the Eurohippies because our car taste is the best in the world. I mean we got diesel and hatchbacks!

It's curious because in some cases in Europe happens the exact opposite. The big two for instance are struggling and losing money in droves here, and you could argue that they have completely lost the plot. General Motors is killing off Chevrolet, hoping that Chevy customers will deflect to Opel, but they won't. They will try to reintroduce Cadillac, but they have tried many times and failed on the same number of occasions.

Ford is trying to force their world cars here, but people aren't so keen on them. And then there's the case of the Mondeo (your Fusion), which by the time it actually goes on sale in Europe and will have to be replaced by another newer generation because the current car will simply be too old to make any real impact.

Volkswagen on the other hand, is the complete opposite. They are successful, lead the market comfortably and they win lots of money. Yes, they haven't quite cracked the US market (probably for the same reason the US companies do not understand Europe), but they hot on the heels of Toyota and General Motors in terms of sales and a highly profitable group. Their cars may not be the most interesting ever, but as a business it's hard to fault.

That bring us nicely onto Fisler. Now, I do not like Mr. Marchionne very much; he has killed off Lancia and isn't a petrolhead at all. But as a business man he is one the very best. The Chrysler purchase was a genius move and it is the one and single reason why Fiat is still alive today, because right now the European operations are bleeding money badly. Furthermore, the recent full integration Fisler could be bring interesting plans to Alfa Romeo, but being Fiat always take rumours with two grains of salt.

The PSA case is just sad. for most of the noughties their line up was plainly awful and they still have some bursts of lunacy (like, "Peugeot is premium!!11!!one!eleven!!!11). But they have invested a lot of money into new products and some of them turning out to be quite competent. The problem is they are far too much dependant on Europe and no one is buying cars in Europe right now. As a result they've had to cut down costs, fire a lot of people and close down factories. They've even sold part of the company to the Chinese. But I don't it will be either enough or even too late.

The rise of Kia/Hyundai is for me one of the most interesting stories in the automotive world of the last few years. They have passed from maker of cheap and cheerful cars to serious contenders of generalist manufacturers, in some cases even making better products than them. Their turning point was the first generation i30, which not only felt like a European car, but undercut the prices of most of them. Now they seem to be treading on the toes of premium manufacturers. We'll see how it all turns out, but it does look interesting indeed.

And that's about it for now.

[pimento]

Thank you European reporter Ferrer. Now over to Sally for the weather.

[Kitdy]

Now, from the True North, Strong and Free...

I will have to disagree with you on Jaguar hellcat. I love their current line and I think the fresh look has done wonders for them. They are the other other luxury choice, outside the German 3 and Lexus (sorta Cadillac too).

Honda and Acura have long been a target of my ire. A real lack of innovation from either. Honda seems to be riding on its name and former glories and I don't understand why anyone would purchase an Acura. Note to the wise, we have a 2011 TL.

Ford has been on somewhat of a roll in my mind; with Euro-styled mainstream cars that have two (large) problems: an compliant DCT and SYNC/MyFordTouch.

GMC, why?

Caddilac is straight up on fire. I hope that people will assess their product with a neutral eye and stack up them up against... Haha who am I kidding! Consumers will just buy a Benz/Audi/BMW or a BediB. Can we work on that acronym?

Fisler somehow has money and makes products and people buy those products. I don't understand why. Why is there Dodge, SRT, Lancia and RAM? Why?! This merger has generated positivity in the press but I still see two terrible companies merging into one huge terrible company.

Chevy: 'Murica, I don't have time for their mainstream offerings but like the Impala and Corvette. The new Camaro looks way nicer but you still can see jack all out of it.

Buick is alive in NA because of China. End.

Benz forced me to sign a contract saying I wouldn't say mean things about them as part of being employed by Mercedes-Benz Canada. All hail Daimler AG!

BMW: Screw those Bavarian jerks.

Audi: Your cars all look the same and put me to sleep.

(The last two written sections may have also been part of said contract signing)

Trucks! They are selling very well still, and that is really gonna hurt when oil rises. They are the volume sellers and profit margins for the Big Three. They are going to have to work hard with cash in hand from trucks to start to battle the Japanese in the compact and mid-size segments, or we may have a repeat of 2008 again.

Hyundai/Kia are slowing down in growth here, and I still don't understand what the hell the two are doing cannibalizing each other. They offer interesting styling (I like Kias, not Hynudais, but at least they are something). These cars are packed with luxury features but there are some rougher edges on the drivetrain and suspension front, so I am told. What is the endgame with the Genesis/Equus dealies?

Ok, enough for now.

Hellcat, all Lincons are ugly.