View Poll Results: American Vs European

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  • American

    21 32.31%
  • European

    44 67.69%
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Thread: American Cars VS European Cars

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by ortiz
    Are you refering to 2liter 500lb diesel commuter go carts, as the light weight sports cars we are missing out on, when you say real sports cars, or TVRs and Lotus's. What "real" sports cars are you refering to?
    Westfield, Tiger, Radical, Atom, Deronda, Lotus, TVR, Marcos, Hood, MKE, Caterham, oh the list is endless I've not even started on the French, Italian, German and even the Dutch ones

    PS: Please put your locatoin in your profiel, It helps put things in context adn enables us to knwo if we have to give more explanations. America doesn't see 1/10th of the cars in Europe
    "A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine
    I've not even started on the French, Italian, German and even the Dutch ones
    (

    Great you mentioned the Dutch, as all americans will surely know the Donkervoort now claims the fastest Nuerburgring laptime, beating the Porsche Carrera GT.
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by henk4
    Great you mentioned the Dutch, as all americans will surely know the Donkervoort now claims the fastest Nuerburgring laptime, beating the Porsche Carrera GT.
    I knew if I didn't you or Wouter would bang on my door
    "A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'

  4. #49
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    omg......this again! i knew this would happen (along with practically everyone here....).
    i hate these arguments.....i know i defend american cars alot......but dam, even i have to stop trying to end the stereotypes every so often
    "I'd hate to die twice. It's so boring" - Richard Feynman, last recorded words.

  5. #50
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    The Donkervoort has the fatsest lapever at Nuerburging, impressive, it is literally like a go-cart with a good chassis and suspension and extraoridinary power to weight ratio. Anyway, these companies seem to be independent kit car manufactors and such, to compare with shelby and callaway etc. I thought you were refering to industrail manufactors.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by ortiz
    The Donkervoort has the fatsest lapever at Nuerburging, impressive, it is literally like a go-cart with a good chassis and suspension and extraoridinary power to weight ratio. Anyway, these companies seem to be independent kit car manufactors and such, to compare with shelby and callaway etc. I thought you were refering to industrail manufactors.
    There is little difference now.
    many "kit cars" are using technology the BIG manufactureres are scared to take on.
    Like c/f, lightweight alloys materials. Bond rather than weld etc etc
    How do you decide ? volume ? There will be more Caterhams than Callaways
    "A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coventrysucks
    It is TRUE, FACT, that the most popular, and therefore the most commonly owned American cars are big SUVs and trucks, and the average family car is bigger than the typical European family car (Focus/Golf sized).

    These cars ARE bigger and ARE heavier.

    They DO have softer suspension settings and more cushioning rides because that is what people want.

    You pull out some figures representing a small total of either regions car outputs to "prove" your point.

    Well, since you can get countless Caterham, Westfield, Radical type cars that weigh less than 500kg that must "prove" all European cars are lighter?

    Of course there are cars in the USA that are light, and cars in Europe that are heavy, but how many people own a 2500+kg Rolls Royce or Bentley in comparison to a 1200kg Ford Focus.

    How many people in America own a 950kg Mosler in comparison to a 2000kg F150?

    You'd accept the phrase "Americans aren't astronauts" because a very, very small percentage of the population have actually been in space.

    Why not "American cars are heavy" when the top three best selling cars in the USA are all 2000kg trucks, and very few are Moslers, Saleen S7s, Corvettes or even Mustangs.

    Because American cars=all of american cars, not the "average." If he said the "average american car" was heavier than the "average European car" that would be true. What if I said european cars are slow? The average european car is slow, but that statement doesnt say that. Its kinda funny how so many european people on here are so hypocritical, if anyone even so much as thinks something bad about a european car you guys shit a brick, but if anyone bashes on american cars, and someone corrects their mistakes you claim they are "defending they're country" which is simply absurd.

    I accept the phrase "Americans are not astronauts" because not all of us have been to space, just like not all of our cars are heavy.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine
    So to be "balanced" shouldn't you list the heavy American "sportscars" too ?
    Do me a favor then, list the "heavy" American sports cars, and remeber IRS, 2 seats and RWD. Your not going to come up with a list, thats why I didnt bother to make one.
    The heavy ones are the performance SEDANS, or muscle cars. And many of our big companies dont make stripped out track cars like TVR and Lotus do.
    That's all I was saying.
    JUST listing the light OR the heavy isn';t helpful. Now that you've added more we can see it.
    Recognising the "balance" is better in a comparison.
    Still ahven't seen any of those "light" Eureopan sportscars to compare with those "light" American sportscars - THEN it woudl be enlightening (!!! )
    Again, im just showing him that Europe doesnt make every car light, just like American doesnt make every car heavy.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slicks
    Because American cars=all of american cars, not the "average."
    BUT the only way to compare one feature of a population IS to use the average and the Standard Deviation ( if you want to be analytical ). I think it reasonable that when someone says "scots people are frugal" that it's taken they mean the MEAN
    However, I can see how you taek it and it explains a lot of our discussions. I'll try to phrase things so you dont' make the error in future. Sorry.
    What if I said european cars are slow?
    AGAIN, most folsk woudlnt' get shirty but woudl probably agree on the AVERAGE, but point out the edges of the bell curve
    Oh and you might be asked to defien "slow" which is actually the weaker of the statements in that sentence.
    Its kinda funny how so many european people on here are so hypocritical, if anyone even so much as thinks something bad about a european car you guys shit a brick,
    I thought hard about that and can't actually think of a case when that happened. It's been in COMPARISONS that the challenges I've seen happened I know I've pointed out the different versiosn you guys get over the "real" Eureopean but that was clarifying NOT "shitting a birck"
    But I see how you perceive it and in future will try to assist you not make that error.
    but if anyone bashes on american cars, and someone corrects their mistakes you claim they are "defending they're country" which is simply absurd.
    ?eh?
    "corrects mistakes" hmm, nah, I'll leave that and keep the peace
    I accept the phrase "Americans are not astronauts" because not all of us have been to space, just like not all of our cars are heavy.
    BUT didn't take on board the second part of the comment. Hmm, insightful
    "A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slicks
    Do me a favor then, list the "heavy" American sports cars, and remeber IRS, 2 seats and RWD. Your not going to come up with a list, thats why I didnt bother to make one.
    OK, explain that one please ?
    YOU created a list that wasn't complete.
    I pointed out that it can cause confusion if only PART of any "list" is produced and a balnaced view isn't available.
    Seemignly I am now supposed to come up with a list because you can't/won't.
    Don't get ANY logic in that. You made the list surely YOU shoudl consider all the parts of that list to be able to come up with a conclusion about the members of that list, Shouldn't you ? :CONFUSED:
    The heavy ones are the performance SEDANS, or muscle cars. And many of our big companies dont make stripped out track cars like TVR and Lotus do.
    Go check the list of HEAVY cars you put up for Europe. The extremes are UBER sedans. I was ONLY trying to ask you to be balanced. As above you called for others to be.
    AND you need to sit in a Noble, or a TVR before commenting about "stripped out". The inside of a Viper is nothing special compared to a Lotus - oh you MIGHT like to add a carpet in the Lotus, but THAT ain't gonna weigh 1000 lbs
    Again, im just showing him that Europe doesnt make every car light, just like American doesnt make every car heavy.
    Also just pointing out that if you dont' consider the mean and SDs then you don't then demosntrate the average and skew of the population. It woudl be like us saying all Eureopan cars weigh 600lbs and do 0-60 in 2.x seconds and 30+mpg just because of the Tiger Z Ther eare clearly too many Ford Focus aroudn for that to be SIGNIFICANT. BUT there are a LOT more on the light end than in the US. It's your lawas that limit your chance to experiecne the wide diversity. We can't fix that, but we can try to improve your perception of the wider world to understand there is MORE than what you see adn American magazines write about.
    Just as you will point out abouth Corvettes and Vipers which not many UCP European memebers will have seeen, sat in or driven as some have had the fortune to do.
    "A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine
    I thought hard about that and can't actually think of a case when that happened. It's been in COMPARISONS that the challenges I've seen happened I know I've pointed out the different versiosn you guys get over the "real" Eureopean but that was clarifying NOT "shitting a birck"
    But I see how you perceive it and in future will try to assist you not make that error.
    It hardly ever happens because 90% of the members here are european, and 95% of the members are biased toward european cars.
    BUT didn't take on board the second part of the comment. Hmm, insightful
    Because the second part was already covered when I said american cars = all american cars, not average.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine
    OK, explain that one please ?
    YOU created a list that wasn't complete.
    I pointed out that it can cause confusion if only PART of any "list" is produced and a balnaced view isn't available.
    Seemignly I am now supposed to come up with a list because you can't/won't.
    Don't get ANY logic in that. You made the list surely YOU shoudl consider all the parts of that list to be able to come up with a conclusion about the members of that list, Shouldn't you ? :CONFUSED:
    I didnt make a list because THERE IS NONE. All our 2 seat sports cars are under 3500lbs, where as some of yours are at 4000lbs.
    Go check the list of HEAVY cars you put up for Europe. The extremes are UBER sedans. I was ONLY trying to ask you to be balanced. As above you called for others to be.
    AND you need to sit in a Noble, or a TVR before commenting about "stripped out". The inside of a Viper is nothing special compared to a Lotus - oh you MIGHT like to add a carpet in the Lotus, but THAT ain't gonna weigh 1000 lbs
    Yes, the extreme are sedans, but our extremes dont even reach that high.
    Ive sat in both an SRT-10 and a Lotus Elise, the Viper has far better interior, also better quality (silly brits wont admit it though).
    Also just pointing out that if you dont' consider the mean and SDs then you don't then demosntrate the average and skew of the population. It woudl be like us saying all Eureopan cars weigh 600lbs and do 0-60 in 2.x seconds and 30+mpg just because of the Tiger Z Ther eare clearly too many Ford Focus aroudn for that to be SIGNIFICANT. BUT there are a LOT more on the light end than in the US. It's your lawas that limit your chance to experiecne the wide diversity. We can't fix that, but we can try to improve your perception of the wider world to understand there is MORE than what you see adn American magazines write about.
    Just as you will point out abouth Corvettes and Vipers which not many UCP European memebers will have seeen, sat in or driven as some have had the fortune to do.
    I already told you, I wasnt talking about average, if "average american cars" was said, then yes, we would talk about average but it wasnt said so drop it.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slicks
    Yes, the extreme are sedans, but our extremes dont even reach that high.
    Ive sat in both an SRT-10 and a Lotus Elise, the Viper has far better interior, also better quality (silly brits wont admit it though).
    Well, the viper is twice the price and isn't stripped out to save weight.
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  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slicks
    Because American cars=all of american cars, not the "average." If he said the "average american car" was heavier than the "average European car" that would be true.


    I accept the phrase "Americans are not astronauts" because not all of us have been to space, just like not all of our cars are heavy.
    So for the sentance "American cars are heavy" to be true in your eyes, it MUST include "average".

    Because only the "average" car is heavy.

    BUT, for the sentance "Americans are not astronauts" to be true, the fact that this refers to the "average" American does not need to be stated.

    There is logic there I don't understand.

    Surely "Average Americans are not astronauts" would be the only acceptable iteration of the phrase.

    You try to twist it round as if I am the bad person "picking" on the Americans, but if you aren't going to make sense I'll just leave you to it.

    Thanks for all the fish

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slicks
    See CoventrySucks, he wasnt joking...
    Its sad because it very untrue.

    Bigger size doesnt always mean bigger weight, look at materials used.
    Lets take a look at performance cars, since it doesnt matter what family sedans weigh.
    Corvette C6 3200lbs (claimed one of the stiffest performance chassis)
    Porsche 911 (997) 3200lbs (hmm, the corvette is bigger too)
    BMW M3 3400lbs
    (heh, just for fun) Camaro Z28/SS 3400lbs (much longer then BMW)
    Mustang GT/Mach1 3400lbs
    Mosler MT900S 2100lbs
    Saleen S7 2700-2900lbs
    Factory Five GTM Mulsanne -2200lbs

    heavy weights
    Ferrari 612 4000+lbs
    almost all Aston Martins - 3700-4100lbs
    Bentlys - 4000+lbs
    RR 4000-5000+lbs (probably one of the heaviest production cars made...)
    Jaguars 3700-4000+lbs
    Im not going to even mention lamborghini...

    Obveously not all American cars are "heavy" or heavier than European cars. Typical dumb stereotype...
    ok, your funny slicks.
    mosler and factory five? ok, how about ultima and donkervoort(however it is spelled).

    tell me about a magnum compared to a volvo v70, tell me about a 300c compared to a 5 series, the hummer compared to a range rover. tell me about the doge ram and ford f150, tell me about the excursion and suburban and avalanche.

    th c6 (3200lbs) is not light it is an average wight car. just like 911(3200), the boxter(3100, the viper(3400) or a 350 z(3400). its a normal wight for a sportscar.

    and i dont know how u see something wrong with saying american cars. i dont know where you come from but, here saying american cars is a general term and it is therefore assumed someone is talking about the average american car. dont get all worked up.

    i have never seen anyone get flamed because they said european cars are slow.

    dont assume i am some idiot who does not know what he is talking about. i know american cars well, i do live here , i do see them evryday in our roads, i do read about them and i do drive them.

    ok, i really dont want this to become another one of those threads were people procrastinate over theyr point of views ( cough matra vs slicks cough)

    i know not ALL american cars are heavy, just a very large majority. just like not all european cars are lighter.
    the point i was trying to make, and that u obviously didint get is that amrican cars are heavier than european cars....DOH.

    ok ill put it in terms u wont get all hypped about.... the average american car is heavier than the average european car.

    this is what i tried to say since the begining...and look at what this thread has degenerated into. im am sorry, i will try to choose my words carefully so slick doesnt get pissed about terminology.

    EDIT: look at the poll, the people have spoken!
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