The State of The Car

[henk4]

High performance driving is something that should be achieved after a period learning, followed by hard work to understand what makes your car go fast and what actually slows you down. It should be an achievement in a way, something that requires an effort, not something you replicate from what you do as if you drove in the Play Station.

and subsequently should only be executed in the confined areas of a racetrack.

And for your information, the Spaniar Luis Ordonnez, who won the play station contest some years ago, and was rewarded with a seat for this years 24 hours of LM race, is now the fastest driver of the team he is driving for. So yes, it is possible to get to grips with speed behind a console.

[Ferrer]

I know about Lucas.

I also think that performance driving can be executed safely even in open roads, and that the same principles of understanding and feeling the car still apply.

[henk4]

I know about Lucas.

I also think that performance driving can be executed safely even in open roads, and that the same principles of understanding and feeling the car still apply.

probably your roads are more open than ours...

[Ferrer]

Well, it's funny you should mention that. Today I went about 80km north of Barcelona and once off the motorway you had to take a country road which allowed a relatively high average speed but that has corners you have to take care of. We were a group of four cars, a Toyota Avensis estate, a C4 Grand Picasso, a Fiesta diesel and me in the i30. You were maintaining a good rythm, rarely going below 100km/h.

I never had to break, while on the other cars brake lights came on randomly. They also drove rather fast on the straights but didn't seem to be able to take corners fluidly (except possibly the chap in the Ford). I'd dowshift to get more engine-braking and therefore no need for brakes at all.

So see, you can still enjoy motoring while not going that fast.

[henk4]

Well, it's funny you should mention that. Today I went about 80km north of Barcelona and once off the motorway you had to take a country road which allowed a relatively high average speed but that has corners you have to take care of. We were a group of four cars, a Toyota Avensis estate, a C4 Grand Picasso, a Fiesta diesel and me in the i30. You were maintaining a good rythm, rarely going below 100km/h.

I never had to break, while on the other cars brake lights came on randomly. They also drove rather fast on the straights but didn't seem to be able to take corners fluidly (except possibly the chap in the Ford). I'd dowshift to get more engine-braking and therefore no need for brakes at all.

So see, you can still enjoy motoring while not going that fast.

Of course, but I thought we were talking about high performance driving, and that is hardly what can achieve in an i30....and, em, not any villages along the roadside?

[Ferrer]

Nope, no villages along the way, altough you do eventually arrive at one. It isn't a very long road, 10km I'd say.

I also disagree that performance driving depends on what you are driving. It depends on the way you drive, in my opinion.

[Magnum9987]

I also disagree that performance driving depends on what you are driving. It depends on the way you drive, in my opinion.

Well, if you are in some econo box or fat FWD sedan or crossover, you really don't have much confidence behind the wheel. I know this feeling well. Try driving some horrid Buick Rendezvouz on some lovely twisty roads. It really scares the piss out of you. Of course, my driving experience is not as great as some of the more experienced drivers here, but I do have enough to feel steering, brakes, throttle, the slush box, and cars like that will not allow you to have fun behind the wheel.

[RacingManiac]

Well, I'm not entirely sure electronics have improved the performance. I mean would an experienced racing driver be faster with the electronics on or off, in a road car? What they have definitely made, though, is performance more accessible for useless driver. Stepping into a Ferrari 458 and going very fast without getting killed or destroying the car is very easy, even if you are plastic surgeon in California, thanks to the flappy paddle gearbox, the multiple-way traction control, ABS, stability management programme control, electronic diff and so on. Try doing the same in a Lamborghini Countach LP400S and the outcome wouldn't probably be the same...

I don't know about that, Driver's Aids is one thing, chassis dynamic control is something else. And the line between the 2 is blurry at best. Much like the whole argument with 458 being more "alive" vs the McLaren. The E-diff and magnetic ride control still works in maximizing the performance envelope of the car even if the driver is powersliding to his heart's content. The car is still flattering the driver. And there is no question its making him faster, whether he is a F1 superstar or Joe Blow Dentist. Can Nigel Mansell drive faster than his Williams did without his active suspension equipped, ABS assisted, automatic gearbox shifting and traction control optimized car? I very much doubt that....

Subjective performance-wise it may be a different story. You might feel more involved in a dumb car where you are doing everything to make it go fast at the limit, than a smarter car with its performance envelope so high that at legal speed its just not thrilling....

[henk4]

Nope, no villages along the way, altough you do eventually arrive at one. It isn't a very long road, 10km I'd say.

I also disagree that performance driving depends on what you are driving. It depends on the way you drive, in my opinion.

my performance driving in a 2CV was legendary...

[Ferrer]

Moarer is betterer.

Next-gen Viper may get 8.7-liter V10

Who cares about emissions...

[f6fhellcat13]

Jesus, Mary, and Joseph! Five-hundred thirty one cubes of engine!
I am no big fan of the Viper, but reading that made me chuckle, which I suppose is kind of the point of a car like this. It is also nice to see that among the ranks of the legally insane, there are those who are still loath to force their induction.

[RacingManiac]

Getting close to the kind of number that the pre-war car gets...

[Ferrer]

Jesus, Mary, and Joseph! Five-hundred thirty one cubes of engine!
I am no big fan of the Viper, but reading that made me chuckle, which I suppose is kind of the point of a car like this. It is also nice to see that among the ranks of the legally insane, there are those who are still loath to force their induction.

Bah, forced induction is for the weak.

[racingguy]

love the viper

[NSXType-R]

Just a bump on this thread.

Saab is dying and will be dead soon enough- luckily the museum is staying put.

What are your thoughts on the next company to die?

My opinion would be Mitsubishi. Other than the Evolution and perhaps the electric car that I don't care for, their products are garbage.

The Galant and Eclipse barely represent what awesome products they stood for.

The Lancer is an okay econobox, but there are better options.

Mitsubishi Heavy Industries would still be around making trucks and all, but their car company's products are very weak.

Comparing Mitsubishi to Subaru, it's a very big contrast. Subaru products are desirable and at least sell- the BR-Z is going to be very hot, the STI and the Legacy are both good cars. The Tribeca, maybe not, but some people like it.

Both make heavy machinery, but as a lineup the Subaru lineup is definitely stronger.



On a side note, I am still concerned about Honda as a company. They seem to have lost their bearings as to their products. The Korean automakers are very strong now, and rightly so. The earthquake and tsunami did not help at all.

The new Accord better be a stronger product or else they'll be in big trouble. The new Civic is lackluster. On a high note, the new Accord may mean that the Crosstour will not be renewed. I also hope the ZDX is axed.

One thing to look forward to is the ILX. Not sure what's wrong with the TSX name, but at least it looks attractive. I still hope it's priced accordingly, or else it won't sell either.

The NSX may end up like the original NSX- doomed to fail, especially if it's too expensive and too technologically laden. Even if it's made to be built in small numbers, a high price is not the way to go, especially when it'll probably be around the price of a GT-R.


Another point to touch upon is GM. The Volt isn't selling well. No surprises there right?