Diesel or petrol?

[charged]

Im with P4g4nite I have a t/d manual hiace as a work car and I swap cogs in that more than the race car. It can be very dangerous when merging with traffic if your in the wrong gear and off boost. The modern turbo diesel is like the old school big boost turbo from 20yrs ago its all or nothing and when its on boost when they start accelerating it time to changer gear.

The T/D are much better in auto were the converter keeps them on boost but in manual a big NO THANKS

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Bear in mind a lot of what Ferrer et al from Europe are talking about are very advanced Diesel cars with some seriously good tech that make sense.

The fact remains In Australia at least the quality of the fuel is not good enough to support these advanced engines. Diesel is still a fairly nasty, dirty and rough blend around these parts. I suppose if the demand exists for the higher quality stuff then it will come about, but for the moment the savings of running a diesel (discounting the higher purchase price of both vehicle & fuel in Australia) and Petrol still makes a strong argument.

[Ferrer]

Bear in mind a lot of what Ferrer et al from Europe are talking about are very advanced Diesel cars with some seriously good tech that make sense.

The fact remains In Australia at least the quality of the fuel is not good enough to support these advanced engines. Diesel is still a fairly nasty, dirty and rough blend around these parts. I suppose if the demand exists for the higher quality stuff then it will come about, but for the moment the savings of running a diesel (discounting the higher purchase price of both vehicle & fuel in Australia) and Petrol still makes a strong argument.

And then as nota tells us all the time there's LPG for you.

[LeonOfTheDead]

And then as nota tells us all the time there's LPG for you.

That's a good option in Italy as well, the after market industry is so good half of the standard LPG system from car makers is actually an after market unit just fitted since the beginning.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

LPG is a cheap option, for sure.

It's just not for everyone, because it's still a little mystical for some....

[Ferrer]

Another thing I've noticed is that the Lancia has better in gear acceleration than the BMW. Of course this could be due to a number of factors not directly related to the engines in question, but nevertheless it surprised me.

(Fast Van, by the way...)

[Lagonda]

IMHO, petrol is dead for daily driving. In Europe, that is.

Sure high revving petrol engines are great fun but not in the traffic conditions we face these days.
Look at the next generation BMW 35d engine: 306bhp. Just like the 35i engine. 600nm of torque at 1500 rpm... (400nm at 1200 rpm for the petrol) And a fuel consumption that's probably half of what the petrol engine needs.

The only reason I can think of to get the 35i would be the sound.

These engines are obviously two extreme examples. Rarely seen on the road. But the same is true for more "normal" engines. Almost every time the diesel is the more sensible choice. Financially petrol engines are the worst choice you can make unless you do very little miles.
Noise, smoke, slow turbo etc. are non issues these days. Keep in mind that most (found in most normal cars) petrol engines are "all or nothing" as well. Sure it's linear but you need to get into the high revs before it really starts going, everything below is a snoozefest.

Hybrid diesels will even widen that gap. Hybrid petrol is a joke, just about any modern diesel uses less fuel.

That said my next car will be a little diesel. I'll miss hitting 6500rpm but my wallet won't.
It hurts to say this, being a car nut, but petrol is really for the rich or for a weekend car over here.

[lightweight]

Hybrid petrol is a joke, just about any modern diesel uses less fuel.

True, and the diesel has more power.

But try and tell that to the public in the US, that the Diesel is more economical than the equivalent hybrid.

I mean lots of British episodes of Fifth Gear have made direct comparisons of Diesel VS Hybrid and the Diesel is cheaper, faster, more economical EVERY TIME!!

[ruim20]

IMHO, petrol is dead for daily driving. In Europe, that is.

Sure high revving petrol engines are great fun but not in the traffic conditions we face these days.
Look at the next generation BMW 35d engine: 306bhp. Just like the 35i engine. 600nm of torque at 1500 rpm... (400nm at 1200 rpm for the petrol) And a fuel consumption that's probably half of what the petrol engine needs.

The only reason I can think of to get the 35i would be the sound.

These engines are obviously two extreme examples. Rarely seen on the road. But the same is true for more "normal" engines. Almost every time the diesel is the more sensible choice. Financially petrol engines are the worst choice you can make unless you do very little miles.
Noise, smoke, slow turbo etc. are non issues these days. Keep in mind that most (found in most normal cars) petrol engines are "all or nothing" as well. Sure it's linear but you need to get into the high revs before it really starts going, everything below is a snoozefest.

Hybrid diesels will even widen that gap. Hybrid petrol is a joke, just about any modern diesel uses less fuel.

That said my next car will be a little diesel. I'll miss hitting 6500rpm but my wallet won't.
It hurts to say this, being a car nut, but petrol is really for the rich or for a weekend car over here.

I agree, my next car will most likely be a diesel or a factory prepared LPG. In terms of economy there is no comparing, all in all you just have to do the math. Gasoline can only have a future in europe if an engine revolution happens like it did in the diesels.
Maybe a weekend car, a used MX-5 1.6 or a Smart Roadster, but thats it.

In a month i'll be doing about 60kms every day, if the road where flat i'd opt for an LPG, as it's hilly i'll be searching for a diesel in the 100bhp + category, Wich will be more economical than my 1.2 80bhp petrol, sad.

Note: i will only buy a new/used car when the current one really falls apart, as it is, i save more by keeping this running than buying a new car.

[Ferrer]

I agree, my next car will most likely be a diesel or a factory prepared LPG. In terms of economy there is no comparing, all in all you just have to do the math. Gasoline can only have a future in europe if an engine revolution happens like it did in the diesels.
Maybe a weekend car, a used MX-5 1.6 or a Smart Roadster, but thats it.

In a month i'll be doing about 60kms every day, if the road where flat i'd opt for an LPG, as it's hilly i'll be searching for a diesel in the 100bhp + category, Wich will be more economical than my 1.2 80bhp petrol, sad.

Note: i will only buy a new/used car when the current one really falls apart, as it is, i save more by keeping this running than buying a new car.

There's indeed no contest in the financial department. Especially if you do high mileage.

But, still and since Lagonda brought up the example, it'd be so hard to say no to a 335i.

[Lagonda]

it'd be so hard to say no to a 335i.

Sure, if someone else is paying.

It's a whole other game if running costs aren't important. Bring on that big 6-cyl, V8, V12, V-whatever petrol engine !

[VOGUE_MAN]

The evolution of diesels has been rapid, in Australia even the last three years has seen giant leaps in diesel engine and it's now to the point where I can barely see the point of petrol accept for high performance race/road cars and if the R8 V12TDI had of happened even petrol in high perforance may have come into question.
For every other type of vehicle though, there's a diesel engine to suit. Tiny cars have incredibly low fuel usage, with a chip a TDV8 Landcruiser can have over 800nm or torque and still get under 11 litres per 100km. Or if you still want to feel like you're driving something sporty test drive a BMW 330D, A small car with 180kw and 480nm of torque, obviously it won't compare to an eight cyclinder engine but it's a lot of power for a 3 series.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Today I was walking in downtown. A guy in a diesel Citroen C2 stopped at the crossing lights.
It was vibrating.

[henk4]

Today I was walking in downtown. A guy in a diesel Citroen C2 stopped at the crossing lights.
It was vibrating.

the crossing light?

[LeonOfTheDead]

the crossing light?

not, that was fine, I was talking about the car, and the guy as well.
Being completely honest though, I had several rides in a petrol C2, and it was worst than my mother's old 1991 Clio.

Finally, I never drove a petrol Stilo, but our diesel, while not falling apart, is made of vibrations.