Agreed on the color. Very punchy. Plus it's small and has decent power for the size. The first hatch I'd actually consider getting.Originally Posted by ahanasmith21
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Agreed on the color. Very punchy. Plus it's small and has decent power for the size. The first hatch I'd actually consider getting.
Last edited by nicko; 09-16-2009 at 10:48 AM.
Enthusiast
I assume that this argument comes from a "value for money" point of view...?
In my case: I wouldn't be prepared to consider another FWD car (as I've stated before, I just can't stand understeer, which is what's going to happen when you reach the limit 90% of the time in a FWD car). I'd pay the extra cash for what I consider to be a superior drivetrain layout (RWD or AWD, provided it's a decent system and isn't biased towards FWD).
I have read your argument in the R8 thread, but I feel I must disagree:
- You say the reason you don't like AWD is because it corrupts steering feel...well surely a powerful FWD car would be worse?
- An AWD drivetrain and steering feel aren't mutually exclusive. It just depends on how focussed the car is and how thorough the development has been.*
- I feel that a nicely balanced AWD car can be just as rewarding to drive as a nicely balanced RWD car, just in a different way.
* Sadly though, most new cars, no matter what the layout, are being spoiled by the use of overly light electric power steering for economy and emissions reasons. - We have a 2004 Mini One D and a 2007 Mini Cooper D - The older One D, with hydraulically assisted steering, feels much better in that department. The electric setup on the Cooper D is irritating as it spoils the driving experience, essentially disconnecting you from what's going on at the business end of the car.
From a driver's point of view, this would be brilliant...however; if you mid-mount a V6, you're going to lose the back seats instantly, and this defeats the object of a hot hatch for the vast majority of potential buyers (I can't remember the last time I saw a real Clio V6 on the road).
- A hot hatch is about blending everyday usability with sporty performance and handling. If the buyer didn't need rear seats and a boot with a large opening, they could buy something like an MX-5 or a used Boxster for the same money.
However, this is why I love the BMW 130i hatchback: You get a great FR chassis (rare these days in anything costing less than £40k), a comfortable driving environment AND rear seats AND a useable boot. It'd be an ideal daily driver for someone like me (who occasionally needs to carry either big objects or 3 passengers).
"This is hardcore." - Evo's John Barker on the TVR Tuscan S
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to be honest.. if i wanted something RWD and sporty, i'd get a coupe, if i wanted something RWD and practical, i'd get a falcon... i wouldn't get a RWD hatch with all the packaging compromises it represents.- A hot hatch is about blending everyday usability with sporty performance and handling. If the buyer didn't need rear seats and a boot with a large opening, they could buy something like an MX-5 or a used Boxster for the same money.
However, this is why I love the BMW 130i hatchback: You get a great FR chassis (rare these days in anything costing less than £40k), a comfortable driving environment AND rear seats AND a useable boot. It'd be an ideal daily driver for someone like me (who occasionally needs to carry either big objects or 3 passengers).
hot hatches just work better as a FWD or even AWD imo.
Andreas Preuninger, Manager of Porsche High Performance Cars: "Grandmas can use paddles. They aren't challenging."
Fanatic
My front wheel drive 200 hp version of this car will smoke a tire right off the car. I'd probably trade in my car for this one.
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oh yeah, turbo power, RWD and a 6 foot wheel base.
That'd be fun and safe in equal measure.
Horsepower wins races. Torque pulls trailers.
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Enthusiast
The problem with most RWD coupés and saloons is that although the boot may be very large, the opening isn't. If you had to get something that measured 50cm x 60cm x 70cm in the car, you'd struggle with most of 'em. It would fit in a 130i hatch though - as once you fold the rear seats down, a hatch is like a small van.
I guess it just depends on what you intend to do with the car...but one thing's for sure: You Aussies are lucky - runnning a Falcon here would cost you an arm and a leg...and your left testicle.
"This is hardcore." - Evo's John Barker on the TVR Tuscan S
Furniture
I must disagree. Some really focused cars excepted, most four wheel drive cars will understeer just as much as a front wheel drive car at the limit.
And yes of course in a powerful front wheel drive car the steering can be corrupted as much as in a four wheel drive car, but I've had a lot of fun in front wheel drive cars. If you know how to drive them you can avoid understeer almost completely.
Furthermore in my opinion most of the times four wheel drive only bring weight and complexity without giving much in terms of driving pleasure. Altough I'll agree you'll have more grip and therefore you'll be going faster through the corners. But that's not my point.
If I can't afford rear wheel drive, I'd be happy with a well sorted front wheel drive car. More than I would with a four wheel drive one.
Lack of charisma can be fatal.
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It's true that powerful front wheel drive cars have traction issues, the Mini with 30bhp less can spin its wheels relatively easy.
But still and considering the added grip of four wheel drive I don't want it. I prefer to be careful with my right foot, personally.
Lack of charisma can be fatal.
Visca Catalunya!
Fanatic
What 4WD cars have you actually driven Ferrer?
Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death...
– Hunter Thompson
Furniture
Audis.
(I know, they are rubbish)
Lack of charisma can be fatal.
Visca Catalunya!
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try top model subaru's..they are pretty good. not enough to sway me from RWD though at this point.
Andreas Preuninger, Manager of Porsche High Performance Cars: "Grandmas can use paddles. They aren't challenging."
For Great Justice.
Even mid range subi's aren't horrid - we have an Outback and for a Softroader it's sweet bro.
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Furniture
That's where it went wrong...
Lack of charisma can be fatal.
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For Great Justice.
It's a wagon right.
with 4wd.
Thats pretty much the definition of softroader
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Rookie
I've always like R model Golfs and this will be no different. It's expensive and you can go faster for less but I think if you made the decision to buy an R model Golf you'd never regret it. The money just provides you with a better ride, better handling and a more quality vehicle. It's like comparing a Hayabusa and a Ducati 1098, the Suzuki is half the price and twice as fast but if you ride both one is a quality bike and one is not.
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