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Thread: Random Races

  1. #91
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    RM, I guess I was thinking of "contenders" as potential winners.
    ( Kind of think USA in 15 squad Rugby Union in the world cup. "Contenders" but not really in contention )

    I think the GT class is still weak with cars that clearly aren't up to the job of the performance for 24hours. Whereas the COrvette is a known capability.
    I see them liekly to keep winning as long as they keep entering at least until a proper developed works entry comes along. Maybe the Beemer for next year ??
    "A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'

  2. #92
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    I don't think that is quite accurate, Corvette hasn't exactly been setting the world on fire since their GT2 switch. They were competitive sure, but never to the extent that we are used to seeing them in the hayday of GT1. They were even sorta out of touch with the winning crew work for a bit, lots of tripping over themselves. While its I think only their 2nd try at Le Mans with GT2(sorry, GTE Pro) and already landed a win, they haven't really been the fast car as they are used to. Ferrari and Porsche have been at this for a while, building fast, turn-key car that can be run competitively by any fast driver. And if the team is competent they can contend for the win. If you don't have a fast driver, Ferrari/Porsche will supply them....Its usually one Corvette team(or BMW) against 3-4 Ferrari/Porsche teams that are all fast and all can win. And for many of the customer teams, they don't have to worry about the development work, just prep(which is still a challenge, of course), but in the same token the need for the vast resources is not nearly as bad as running a prototype operation. Remember the last big win from Corvette in GTE Pro/GT2 was PLM last year, and that was more due to the faltering Risi than Vette being outright faster....Now this race at least shows that finally Pratt & Miller have gotten their pit work well sorted, and their car is reliable(they blew motor last year at Le Mans IIRC, and have issue with motor at Sebring this year). Maybe they will be back to the dominating ways, but somehow I think that won't be the case...BMW is plenty fast, 458 is faster, if not more fragile, much like 430 was early on. Given time they will also get better. You can count for Porsche to improve the GT3 also....

    Picking between GT and LMP I'll always go with the latter, but the current GT classes are very exciting to watch....
    University of Toronto Formula SAE Alumni 2003-2007
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  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrMopar427 View Post
    Fabio Babini (November 3rd, 1969-Present)
    Born in Faenza, Italy

    4 NASCAR Grand-Am Rolex Sports Car Series race ran (2001, 2008)
    First race: 2001 Rolex 24 at Daytona at Daytona
    1 Top 5
    1 Top 10
    962 laps completed
    4 laps led
    Average Start: 10.5, rounded to 11th
    Average Finish: 14.2, rounded to 14th
    This post blows 'cause it suggests Fabio was a one-shot racer, instead of a well-established endurance driver with a respectable history. You should have named this lame thread "Random NASCAR Races". Even then it wouldn't make any sense.
    Never own more cars than you can keep charged batteries in...

  4. #94
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    The issue I have RM with Ferrari and Porsche is they aren't actually that interested in an LM 24h car.
    No real development of the breed.
    They do much better in the various Euro GT championships and if you look at the sponsorship money and the rounds clearly where they can get the funding to make the cars that win those ones.

    Until a FACTORY aim for Le Mans I think it will stay the same and I dont think a factory will because the risk versus return just is not swung far enough over to equal the benefits of the other racing series.

    Friend tried with his winning Scuderia Ferrari team to "do Le Mans". Lost out a lot on it and ultimately led to closing the team down. No Ferrari support

    EDIT: But at least we're seeing sensible interchange in theis thread As csl pointed out failing to post a drivers REAL history is making a mockery of these guys results and worthy of either just locking/closing this thread .... or letting off-topic posts flourish. I'm with csl on this one !!! Without Babini's efforts Bartocci may have had even worse outcome in the Brno crash
    Last edited by Matra et Alpine; 06-13-2011 at 02:33 AM.
    "A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'

  5. #95
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    Ron Atapattu (September 28th, 1956-Present)
    Born in Boca Raton, Florida

    3 NASCAR Grand-Am Rolex Sports Car Series races ran (2002-2003)
    First race: 2002 Rolex 24 at Daytona at Daytona
    1 Top 10
    848 laps completed
    Average Start: 13.3
    Average Finish: 15.3

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine View Post
    The issue I have RM with Ferrari and Porsche is they aren't actually that interested in an LM 24h car.
    No real development of the breed.
    They do much better in the various Euro GT championships and if you look at the sponsorship money and the rounds clearly where they can get the funding to make the cars that win those ones.

    Until a FACTORY aim for Le Mans I think it will stay the same and I dont think a factory will because the risk versus return just is not swung far enough over to equal the benefits of the other racing series.

    Friend tried with his winning Scuderia Ferrari team to "do Le Mans". Lost out a lot on it and ultimately led to closing the team down. No Ferrari support
    Agreed. Ferrari are able to utilize "customer" racers with deep pockets though, much like Porsche has done for decades... giving support to "particular" customers where it suits their needs. LeMans isn't as important to either as some other races and it shows. That GM has been so successful with the Corvette program speaks volumes about what can be achieved on a relatively modest budget... but if they had comparable factory competition? Not so sure.
    Quote Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine View Post
    EDIT: But at least we're seeing sensible interchange in theis thread As csl pointed out failing to post a drivers REAL history is making a mockery of these guys results and worthy of either just locking/closing this thread .... or letting off-topic posts flourish. I'm with csl on this one !!! Without Babini's efforts Bartocci may have had even worse outcome in the Brno crash
    I vote to close/delete this bullshit thread. Moparboy's last baldly cut 'n paste post is of a local guy I'm familiar with and again, just gives GrandAm results. Atapattu could be described as a "gentleman" racer, but was pretty active for several years with several teams and didn't just buy his seat. Drove 8 rounds of the '99 season for Paul Belmondo Racing, the first independent team to beat the factory Vipers.

    He WON the 1999 FIA-GT race at Homestead. He teamed with Emmanuel Clérico for the SVR Lamborghini Trophy. He has teamed with Bepo, Cunningham, Collard, Van Der Merwe and more driving Porsches, Vipers, Ferraris. BTW, he wasn't born in Boca, either.

    1999 - GT FIA GT Championship
    1. Olivier Beretta / MC Chrysler Viper GTS-R 78
    1. Karl Wendlinger / A Chrysler Viper GTS-R 78
    3. Jean-Philippe Belloc / F Chrysler Viper GTS-R 53
    4. David Donohue / USA Chrysler Viper GTS-R 25
    5. Dominique Dupuy / F Chrysler Viper GTS-R 24
    6. Wolfgang Kaufmann / D Porsche 911 GT2 21
    6. Christian Gläsel / D Chrysler Viper GTS-R 21
    6. Christian Vann / NL Chrysler Viper GTS-R 21
    9. Paul Belmondo / F Chrysler Viper GTS-R 19
    10. Vincent Vosse / B Chrysler Viper GTS-R 16
    10. Bob Wollek / F Porsche 911 GT2 16
    12. Toni Seiler / CH Chrysler Viper GTS-R 14
    12. Ni Amorim / P Chrysler Viper GTS-R 14
    12. Michel Ligonnet / F Porsche 911 GT2/Chrysler Viper 14
    15. Franz Konrad / A Porsche 911 GT2 13
    16. Justin Bell / GB Chrysler Viper GTS-R 12
    17. Emmanuel Clérico / F Chrysler Viper GTS-R 11
    18. Marc Duez / B Chrysler Viper GTS-R 10
    18. Ron Atapattu / Chrysler Viper GTS-R 10
    20. Didier Defourny / B Chrysler Viper GTS-R
    20. Julian Bailey / GB Lister Storm Jaguar
    22. Luca Drudi / I Chrysler Viper GTS-R
    23. Hans Hugenholtz / NL Chrysler Viper GTS-R
    24. Sascha Maassen / D Porsche 911 GT2
    25. Xavier Pompidou / F Porsche 911 GT2/Chrysler Viper 5
    26. David Hart / NL Lister Storm Jaguar
    26. Claude-Yves Gosselin / F Chrysler Viper GTS-R
    26. Mike Hezemans / NL Porsche 911 GT2/Marcos LM600 4
    29. Tim Sugden / GB Lister Storm Jaguar 3
    29. Jamie Campbell-Walter / GB Lister Storm Jaguar 3
    31. Stéphane Ortelli / F Porsche 911 GT2 2
    31. Manfred Jurasz / A Porsche 911 GT2 2
    31. Claudia Hürtgen / D Porsche 911 GT2 2
    31. Michael Eschmann / D Porsche 911 GT2/996 GT3-R 2
    31. Paul Hulverscheid / D Porsche 911 GT2/996 GT3-R 2
    36. Yukihiro Hane / J Porsche 911 GT2 1
    36. Altfrid Heger / D Porsche 911 GT2 1
    36. Lance Stewart / USA Porsche 911 GT2 1
    36. Hubert Haupt / D Porsche 911 GT2 1
    36. André Ahrlé / D Porsche 911 GT2 1
    Last edited by csl177; 06-13-2011 at 08:02 PM. Reason: This thread is worthless and misinformation pisses me off
    Never own more cars than you can keep charged batteries in...

  7. #97
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    2009 Lucas Oil 150
    NASCAR Camping World Truck Series race number 24 of 25
    November, 13th, 2009 at Phoenix International Raceway, Phoenix, Arizona
    150 laps* on a 1.000 mile paved track (150.0 miles)
    *Race extended to 151 laps (151.0 miles) due to green/white/checker

    Time of race: 1 hour, 30 minutes, 50 seconds
    Average Speed: 99.743 mph
    Pole Speed: 131.019 mph
    Cautions: 7 for 26 laps
    Margin of Victory: under caution
    Attendance: 28,500
    Lead changes: 5

    1. Kevin Harvick (#4 Longhorn Smokeless Tobacco Chevrolet for Kevin Harvick)
    2. Kyle Busch (#51 Miccosukee Resort/Graceway Pharmaceuticals Toyota for Billy Ballew)
    3. Aric Almirola (#15 Graceway Pharmaceuticals/AKawareness.com Toyota for Billy Ballew)
    4. Ron Hornaday, Jr. (#33 VFW.org Chevrolet for Kevin Harvick)
    5. Johnny Sauter (#13 Rodney Adkins/Curb Records/Fun Sand Chevrolet for Mike Curb)
    6. Mike Skinner (#5 Exide Batteries Toyota for Randy Moss)
    7. Mike Bliss (#25 Harris Trucking Toyota for James Harris)
    8. Matt Crafton (#88 Australian Gold/Menards Chevrolet for Duke Thorson)
    9. David Starr (#24 Zachry Toyota for James Harris)
    10. Stacy Compton (#60 SafeAuto Insurance Toyota for Jeff Wyler)
    11. Brian Scott (#16 Albertson's Toyota for Joe Scott)
    12. Todd Bodine (#30 Copart Toyota for Germain Racing)
    13. T.J. Bell (#11 Red Horse Racing/FueledByFans.com Toyota for Tom DeLoach)
    14. Rick Crawford (#14 Circle Bar Truck Corral/International Ford for Tom Mitchell)
    15. Chad McCumbee (#07 Tiwi/fuelproof.com/Valvoline Chevrolet for Ken Smith)
    16. Timothy Peters (#17 Strutmasters.com/Red Horse Racing Toyota for Tom DeLoach)
    17. Tayler Malsam (#81 One-Eighty Toyota for Randy Moss)
    18. Ricky Carmichael (#31 Monster Energy Drink Chevrolet for Steve Turner)
    19. Kevin Conway (#71 Extenze Racing Chevrolet for Rob Fuller)
    20. Brett Thompson (#61 Rich Thompson Trucking Inc. Dodge for Richard Thompson)
    21. Jamie Dick (#08 Viva Auto Group/Inventory Sales Co. Chevrolet for Bobby Dotter)
    22. Brad Sweet (#90 Great Clips Toyota for Doug Stringer)
    23. James Buescher (#10 International Maxx Force Diesel Ford for Tom Mitchell)
    24. Derek White (#12 OCRGazBar.com/James Carter Attorney Chevrolet for Mario Gosselin)
    25. Norm Benning (#57 Reaxion Energy Drinks Chevrolet for Norm Benning)
    26. Wheeler Boys (#50 USANA Health Sciences Dodge for Trevor Boys)
    27. Robbie Brand (#37 Lagunitas Brewing Co. Ford for Robbie Brand)
    28. Colin Braun (#6 Con-way Freight/TrueLTL.com Ford for Jack Roush)
    29. Tom George, Jr. (#22 Richard Childress Racing Development Chevrolet for Richard Childress)
    30. Dan Brode (#48 Rockingham Speedway Polar Bear 150 Chevrolet for Andy Hillenburg)
    31. Richard Harriman (#47 FT-11 Multi-Purpose Degreaser Chevrolet for Andy Hillenburg)
    32. Wayne Edwards (#05 Chrome Soda Dodge for Trevor Boys)
    33. Jason White (#23 GunBroker.com Dodge for Dwayne Gaulding)
    34. Nick Tucker (#21 Red Rocks Cafe Dodge for Dwayne Gaulding)
    35. Chris Lafferty (#89 Blue Ox/Lafferty Performance Chevrolet for Chris Lafferty)
    36. Terry Cook (#02 Koma Unwind/CorrieStottracing.com Chevrolet for Corrie Stott)

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by csl177 View Post
    Agreed. Ferrari are able to utilize "customer" racers with deep pockets though, much like Porsche has done for decades... giving support to "particular" customers where it suits their needs. LeMans isn't as important to either as some other races and it shows. That GM has been so successful with the Corvette program speaks volumes about what can be achieved on a relatively modest budget... but if they had comparable factory competition? Not so sure.
    Cannot agree with that, GM program was not exactly cheap, and Corvette program doesn't return any profit for GM neither. GT1 to GT2 there might have been a cost reduction, but considering GM basically builds just the 2 factory car a season and no real customer program, the entire program is funded by GM and whatever sponsorship they raised. Porsche has always been making an emphasis on their GT program that they are making it for their customer, its a business for them. I am sure they actually make money selling cars. They have incentive to do it. Ferrari probably operates on the same model, the economy is not the same.

    In the GT1 days GM has faced factory level competition and has succeeded. They last few years of GT1 was not exactly GM's fault that they had no competition. The fact that they voluntarily stepped down to GT2 class to get real competition speaks volume about their intention of actually racing for something, and as I've mentioned the success did not exactly come as a given....
    University of Toronto Formula SAE Alumni 2003-2007
    Formula Student Championship 2003, 2005, 2006
    www.fsae.utoronto.ca

  9. #99
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    They do make GT3 cars, don't they? And sell them as kits for racing costumers?
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
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  10. #100
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    We agree, RM... I wasn't inferring that GM makes a profit on any customer racing sales, just the opposite. What I meant was that were there BMW, Mercedes, Ferrari, Porsche, Aston (etc.) factory teams the competition would be greater.

    Ferrari and more particularly Porsche have historically benefited from wealthy privateers, as you note it's always been their business model. GM hasn't had a racing customer base since the '70s comparable to Chrysler/Viper in it's heyday. It's also been hamstrung by regulation changes recently, but in spite of that still achieves attention warranted by their program with a budget that's pretty modest compared to other factory teams. Their success rate is impressive over the past decade, and Fitzpatrick has been an effective promoter of GM's halo brand... from their own site:

    "Race on Sunday, Sell on Monday
    Corvette Racing's success in production-based endurance racing has played a significant role in improving the performance of the production Corvette. In addition, as the racing and production cars have become more closely linked, Corvette Racing has also shown a positive impact in Corvette sales.

    "Corvette sales tracked directly to customer leads at ALMS races have doubled since 2005," said John Fitzpatrick, Chevrolet Performance Cars marketing manager. "This proves what we have heard anecdotally from other Corvette owners: Watching production-based Corvettes race against legendary marques like BMW, Porsche and Ferrari, on legendary tracks like Sebring and Le Mans, makes Corvette all the more desirable."
    Never own more cars than you can keep charged batteries in...

  11. #101
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    I've heard lately that 'Vette sales have been slumping somewhat, though it was blamed at least partially on the the Camaro revival.
    Life's too short to drive bad cars.

  12. #102
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    May have something to do with the fact that the C6 just turned a million this year too...
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
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  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    They do make GT3 cars, don't they? And sell them as kits for racing costumers?
    I read that the GT3 and GT4 Corvettes are prepared by Callaway.

  14. #104
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    But AFAIK it is a factory backed preparation in Michelotto-Ferrari style.
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
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  15. #105
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    Ryan Black
    Born in Alta Loma, California

    1 NASCAR K&N Pro Series East race ran (2008)
    First race: 2008 Heluva Good! Fall 125 at Loudon
    72 laps completed
    $2,600 earned
    Average Start: 38th
    Average Finish: 30th

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